LRC

I am wondering why the current “leaders” of the church couldn’t use the term Shepherd. That, to me, conveys : Agapae – self sacrificial love. You’d leave the 99 to find the 1. Servanthood – hours of devotion to the attention, care, and well being of the sheep / congregation. I know there’d probably be debate over congregates being “sheep”… but the shepherd is also meek. Compare that to what our culture considers the pastoral dignitarians of our day . I can see from the previous posts the common thread of the huge reversal of what we’ve come to know from the “pastoral” and “servant-leader” role. That’s what Jesus did. He chose the simple things to overcome the wise. I think of that daily, as I can be completely thwarted by a one year old — LOL! I do think God has a sense of humor. The biggest detriment to the put-together and perfectly pruned pastor is that when you begin to challenge their position & authority, the anger begins to flow — if they are power hungry, they are most certainly scared to lose it. Look at the Senhedrin & Pharisees. Jesus’ words were piercing – through the heart!

I am wondering why the current “leaders” of the church couldn’t use the term Shepherd. That, to me, conveys : Agapae – self sacrificial love. You’d leave the 99 to find the 1. Servanthood – hours of devotion to the attention, care, and well being of the sheep / congregation. I know there’d probably be debate over congregates being “sheep”… but the shepherd is also meek. Compare that to what our culture considers the pastoral dignitarians of our day — you all are fight. There’s a huge reversal of what we’ve come to know. That’s what Jesus did. He chose the simple things to overcome the wise. I think of that daily, as I can be completely thwarted by a one year old — LOL! I do think God has a sense of humor. The biggest detriment to the put-together and perfectly pruned pastor is that when you begin to challenge their position & authority, the anger begins to flow — if they are power hungry, they are most certainly scared to lose it. Look at the Senhedrin & Pharisees. Jesus’ words were piercing – through the heart!

“Is it possible that some who restrict women from preaching the gospel to men are so in love with their own unlimited freedom in the body of Christ that they are unwilling to even think through this issue to release God’s women for service? Is it possible that some are more than willing to portray God as One who tempts women to sin by gifting them with gifts that they dare not use for the common good?”

This is the very question I ask my dh daily. We are now going over this in our congregation – interesting that you should mention this Cheryl! The more we get into this, it would seem (as had been mentioned via Mark & Mabel earlier) that many (okay, 5 out of the 5 congregations I have been a part of, all SBC & NGLBC) churches would gender-coat the spiritual giftings. I wrestled with this heavily, and nearly lost my life over the ‘torment’ of the gift that I know Christ has placed within me. I would have rather died than live with the gift He placed inside of me that was “not true” or “not allowed” to be lived out & used. It would seem to me that there’s only one being who would be more than happy to see nearly 70% of God’s workforce put “out of comission” by pushing them into temporal roles & limit their calling — and it ain’t Jesus! Last time I checked, the hands & feet of Christ needed one another, and the hands were not designated male, nor the feet female… the only part that was designated “Head” was Christ! Amen for that!

Also, in response to Mark — ALL who speak the Word of God are accountable to Him in the end. The charge on my heart is when it states in Luke: “Luk 17:2 It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. ” Little ones meaning the spiritually younger in Christ — that is a charge to any & all shepherds, teachers, pastors & preachers. I have long pondered how many of the female gender have turned away from their faith because they were, at the core of their giftings & God given talents, told they were “false” gifts, not from God, and “out of line”. I had contemplated turning from my faith if indeed there was a tortuous God who enjoyed giving gifts to His daughters which were never meant to be used for His Kingdom – why would He do that?

“Is it possible that some who restrict women from preaching the gospel to men are so in love with their own unlimited freedom in the body of Christ that they are unwilling to even think through this issue to release God’s women for service? Is it possible that some are more than willing to portray God as One who tempts women to sin by gifting them with gifts that they dare not use for the common good?”

This is the very question I ask my dh daily. We are now going over this in our congregation – interesting that you should mention this Cheryl! The more we get into this, it would seem (as had been mentioned via Mark & Mabel earlier) that many (okay, 5 out of the 5 congregations I have been a part of, all SBC & NGLBC) churches would gender-coat the spiritual giftings. I wrestled with this heavily, and nearly lost my life over the ‘torment’ of the gift that I know Christ has placed within me. I would have rather died than live with the gift He placed inside of me that was “not true” or “not allowed” to be lived out & used. It would seem to me that there’s only one being who would be more than happy to see nearly 70% of God’s workforce put “out of comission” by pushing them into temporal roles & limit their calling — and it ain’t Jesus! Last time I checked, the hands & feet of Christ needed one another, and the hands were not designated male, nor the feet female… the only part that was designated “Head” was Christ! Amen for that!

Also, in response to Mark — ALL who speak the Word of God are accountable to Him in the end. The charge on my heart is when it states in Luke: “Luk 17:2 It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. ” Little ones meaning the spiritually younger in Christ — that is a charge to any & all shepherds, teachers, pastors & preachers. I have long pondered how many of the female gender have turned away from their faith because they were, at the core of their giftings & God given talents, told they were “false” gifts, not from God, and “out of line”. I had contemplated turning from my faith if indeed there was a tortuous God who enjoyed giving gifts to His daughters which were never meant to be used for His Kingdom – why would He do that?

I suppose I really had two encounters in this area. I forgot the other one was when I was spending time with my father who came to visit. He stated that he agreed women had a place in ministry, in Sunday school, teaching, in the kitchen, teaching other women, etc… Then I asked him if (in his understanding of the scripture, as having his MDiv and having pastored many churches) I could be a pastor, he just shook his head , and said, “eh, um , sorry.”. Thanks Dad.

I suppose I really had two encounters in this area. I forgot the other one was when I was spending time with my father who came to visit. He stated that he agreed women had a place in ministry, in Sunday school, teaching, in the kitchen, teaching other women, etc… Then I asked him if I could be a pastor, he just shook his head , and said, “eh, um , sorry.”. Thanks Dad.

I just experienced my first real encounter of the “separate but equal” theory as I found my church would be partnering with a Christian university/seminary to offer courses to our church members. The courses are aimed at : 1. Becoming a Pastor, 2. Theological premesis for becoming a church Leader. There are courses in both the graduate and undergraduate. The courses are significantly well priced, and as I inquired about taking some of these courses, our associate pastor got back to me. My heart sank. He stated, “The degrees are focused on ministry; so their scope is limited. For those seeking degrees they would be primarily in the area of local church ministry, especially church planting and pastoring. However, it sounds like women in ministry will also find this material very beneficial, both professionally and in their spiritual growth.” HOWEVER??? Personal spiritual growth is fine and dandy, but don’t even think about becoming a pastor… you can do anything BUT…. You know, when you get right down to the heart of it, it’s all about PRIDE. Authority…. WHAT DID CHRIST DO? He laid down HIS life & all authority HE had under heaven to serve the church —- not on a platform behind a pulpit but ON THE CROSS. Tell me who’s in violation of scripture. I just don’t get how so many “top” educated people can be so deceived and indoctrinated with lies and not see it. Oye!

First of all, let me say that I am so grateful to have a place to be. I struggle with finding restrictions within the body of Christ, even from those who say they do support women – when you get right down to it, the “supporters” of women onl y give encouragement to traditional women’s roles. I am a Pastor’s Kid (P.K.) and now a Pastor’s Wife. Though I can testify that there are differences (at least within the roles from 20 years ago) emerging, the general mentality stays the same at the heart.
My husband is pretty supportive of me as a woman who is being called by God to speak on these very issues. At present, we have 3 young boys & I am trying to go back to school to get my undergrad, and then it’s on to my graduate degree. I know this will be a long road, and I have fought for it, and I want my sons to know who they are in Christ. I want to know who I am in Christ too.

I am so encouraged to see other learned women here searching & defending the scriptures – as it states in Revelation , let no man add or take away from what is written. I also believe heavily in the pride of man will bring him low, but he who takes a lowly stance will obtain honor (Proverbs 29:23).

If (certain) men want to masculinze the church, why don’t they take a simple, logical look at Christ, who HUMBLED HIMSELF, came in the FORM OF A MAN, carried His cross (ultimate humilitation and pain), suffered & died for our sins. The scripture says , He came TO SERVE, NOT to be served. Hm…. came as a man, to serve….

Fear. Fear is the path to anger, anger is the path to hatred & hatred the path to suffering & death (okay, so that was Yoda… but really!)
I like this post:
“if we cut to the core of things… there is a shame and significant anxiety around what is woman, feminine, female. I truly believe that this reveals a hatred of woman and is part of what needs healing in this world. So much fear is created and fear is not from God. “