Debate Map ?

Browse actual debate discussion content organized by passage and point type. Distinct from the Argument Library, which contains structured claims with researched responses.

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@AsherJacob23060 @AlistairMerrym1 It’s hard to respond to your replies as you are starting new threads for each reply. In Mt 16:18–19, the “keys” are given in response to Peter’s confession of Jesus’ identity (since this is the confession on which the church will be built), but in Mt 18:15–20 the s

Thankfully, the Bible doesn’t teach this. God elects what is to become of those who trust in Christ but not who will have faith. Faith is not a work. It is an expression of weakness to save oneself and transference of trust to the One who is able to save.

@NicolasGold1 @MikeWingerii Ah, I see where you were going. Wives are not being called kephale or “authorities over” but managers which is a servant role. A very similar thing is stated in 1Ti 3:4 of elders/overseers.

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii But how we interpret Paul is first by Paul's own words. Testing what he said against the OT is certainly important, but identifying what he said is the first task of Exegesis.

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii Sorry you got blocked. Mike Winger blocked me when I challenged him to stop telling egalitarians to repent of spreading their views. He simply could have responded to my rebuttals of his position which I think he is free to hold and I fellowship wit

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii When I finally realized how Paul was already talking about angels in his letter to the Corinthians, it was the only thing that made sense to me of 1Co 11:10. I know we disagree, but I'm certainly not mishandling this text or saying something foreig

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii Yes, but it means all scripture and Peter tells us that what Paul wrote was scripture too (2Pe 3:15-16)⎯and that some distorted his writings. Surely you are not suggesting that "all scripture" in 2Ti 3:16-17 doesn't itself include 2Ti 3:16-17, right

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii First you claimed I was imputing my world view into the text. When I shared I was simply using Paul’s own clear statements earlier in the same letter you now claim I’m missing something else the Corinthians (broadly Gentiles) were acquainted with bu

@BeardedPresby @FoundersMin @tomascol @GundenGraham @davemitz I’ve criticized Rick Warren on his sometimes sloppy use of scripture but on this issue he is correct. Scripture does not back up the BCO here. That is the point we are debating.

@thatwit45 @AF_Tugboater @LilaGraceRose 1Co 11:3 refers to the head of ‘every man.’ The Greek word here is aner but I believe it is referring to everyone, male and female. Clearly, the head of every person is Jesus because Jesus is the creator of all things. The one who created Adam is the pre-incar

@MikeWingerii I am still watching your video. At [53:13], you were reading from Belleville’s book and saw the initials “JB” and couldn’t find what Bible translation this was referring to. I hovered over my Logos version and it said “Jerusalem Bible” but the front of the book usually has a… https:/

@ronhenzel @ZacharyGarris These things being true⎯and you won't be able to refute them, the only other anarthrous is "a woman" in vs 11-12. This fits as she is there in the church at Ephesus. She is deceived and unsaved but her husband is not deceived yet is silent, following the pattern of Eve an

@ronhenzel @ZacharyGarris While you are working hard on that question, you'll also want to consider that "the woman’s" transgression that happened because she was deceived was a past action, but the continuing results of the transgression are a present “state of affairs” at the time of Paul’s writin

@deluxe_pastor @DennisMSwanson1 @ZacharyGarris No, I don’t think he believes he is more “mature” than Paul. But you might want to revisit the details of this text in its context with the specific grammar being used. Take another look? https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@AJRigney @ZacharyGarris I don’t know if you have tried to instruct someone who is objecting constantly, but objections are frequent with false teachers because it seems they disagree on every point you make so you can’t get far. Often it takes quietly listening until the whole thing is presented.

@cody_floate Yes, and the basis for this is not ignoring scripture, but rightly dividing it. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@baste_goblin You keep throwing around that cult term to try to discredit me, but technically it refers to those who deny the fundamentals of the faith. Whether women can preach or teach or lead, or the specifics of one’s interpretation of 1 Tim 2:15 (which is one of the most debated passages…

@ZacharyGarris Now, I haven’t reviewed what this lady is teaching, but godly women should not be prevented from teaching correct doctrine whether it’s to women or men. 1 Tim 2:11-15 is typically used to restrict women. However, in context and with the specific grammar we see something else. https:

@2b_censored @autocorrect2_0 @DezGroves You are right that Paul was not using the imperative in v12. But can you explain verse 15? https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@gleasondj @narelleford @FrontiersIn @FrontEndocrinol But Paul was quoting from the letter the Corinthians wrote him (see 1 Cor 7:1) and in 1 Cor 14:34-35 this is a quote from that letter—he refutes them in v36: "What? came the word of God out from you [men]? or came it unto you [men] only?" https:/

@laurchas22 But find another group of sincere believers who are true to the scripture and whose leadership are truly servants. Don’t stay alone and on social media.

@notofthischurch @Soteriology101 @IkeLifeLike @joel_budreau The woman sinned first but scripture says it is through one man that sin entered laying the blame on Adam, this because he sinned with knowledge and was not deceived like Eve. The reason is because abuse he was created before God was done

@PwnMonger @BenZeisloft @HwsEleutheroi Mary showed faith in Jesus and Jesus responded to her request just like many others later in Jesus’ ministry. Jesus came to serve and not be served. But this does not mean that you need Mary to take your requests to Jesus. This is a misuse of that scripture.

@lyn_kidson Not sure what was said, but there’s a biblically consistent and faithful way of reading this passage that is egalitarian that you might be interested in taking a look at. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@AdamPage85 @brian_lester88 @tomcatpdx5000 You are right that the order of creation is significant, but in this case Paul is using Adam and Eve as a template for a couple in Ephesus where the deceived wife is teaching false doctrine and the husband who knows better is not doing anything to correct t

@mrpaulscotti @jacrabtree66 @MelonieMac It’s pretty simple to quote something. But to actually explain what Paul is saying in that passage is not as simple. For example, what do you think he means by “She will be saved through childbearing if they…”? Why does he use singular and plural here? Why

@stiiiiiiine @ijbolistani @dirvarda I know that this is a pretty common understanding of that passage, but I don’t believe that when you consider all the evidence in this passage and the back references Paul uses that he is saying this. I believe he’s dealing with a particular couple of which the w

@autocorrect2_0 @RealizeYour @markallison Paul isn’t explicit on what the false teaching is. Many have attempted to guess, but we cannot be certain. Glad that you recognize women are and can be prophets as prophets certainly speak authoritatively for God!

@RealizeYour @autocorrect2_0 @markallison This passage doesn’t teach that all women cannot teach but that a specific woman who was teaching false doctrine needed to quietly learn first. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@thatwit45 @AF_Tugboater @LilaGraceRose Why do you say ‘men’ only? The Bible does not stress that women cover up. 1Co 11:10 says that a wife should have authority over her own head to decide whether to cover or not. Wives should be in submission to their husbands, but husbands also to their wives

@Truth_matters20 No. I know a lot of men who are easily deceived. Paul explains that it is because of the time sequence order of creation in Eden that Adam wasn't deceived but Eve was.

@NotALibertar1an @HakamYaaqub @sola_chad You’re right that Paul isn’t describing Jewish customs in 1Co 11. But it’s inaccurate to say he’s outlining 'roles.' Where are you seeing 'role' in this text? Paul's appeal to creation is about origins, not hierarchy, because Paul was explaining the reason th

@Robert_S_Morley @ronhenzel But Saul DIDNT KNOW He was persecuting the Lord—he explicitly says this in Acts 22:8 and declares he was ignorant in 1 Tim 1:13. Jesus had to reveal this to him. And as soon as this happened, he obeyed. This is an account of ignorance, not hatred. But you say he was…

@ronhenzel Not only that, but Paul didn’t know who was speaking to him: “Who are You, Lord?…” (Acts 9:5)

@scribe_ezra I hear you. But Jesus says 2 or 3. I don’t think He made a mistake in His words. He says it again in both verses 19 and 20. If He is referring to a church gathering, would that mean that one of the two must be an elder or pastor? Or is Jesus referring to something else in…

@eltrucker87 @wbigs2001 @smashbaals Yes, he’s an apostle. Indeed, the qualifications are inspired from God and not just made up by Paul. But if a pastor or elder of overseer or bishop must be married and have multiple believing children, that means Paul is disqualified. If he can serve while disq

@nevermindlind @smashbaals You are assuming the conclusion. The great commission is to make disciples and the early churches were not mega church buildings with special pulpits but house churches. In what sense is a woman who has the requisite character qualifications teaching truth an ungodly per

@nevermindlind @smashbaals But a godly woman teaching true doctrine isn’t responsible for ruining the church, right? Are you not just referring to false teaching coming I to the church regardless of the source?

@jtdxn_ @BibleBashed But that's the qualification that isn't in the text.

@Presbyterianon There are actually multiple promises, but this one in Gen 12:3 was spoken to Abraham and doesn’t mention his seed. Here are the relevant passages concerning the seed (or offspring, singular) of Abraham: 1. Genesis 12:7 - “Then the Lord appeared to Abram and said, ‘To your…

@Yeshua__Meg @itsvalarieann The days are defined in Genesis 1 by evening followed by morning or dark followed by light. Dawn is the start of the second half of the day. This is not voiding the Sabbath but that all of the ceremonial law which this is a part of is fulfilled by Christ. We are not ob

@RepentTherefor @Yeshua__Meg @itsvalarieann No. The Sabbath is the 7th day. The church met on the first day to celebrate the resurrection. But the day we meet is not most important. Acts 20:7 - “On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because h

@doomsdayslam @BibleBashed I totally agree with what you wrote. I don’t apply modern social norms when trying to interpret scripture. But if the Bible says something and we find agreement somewhere in culture (not that culture is monolithic or static), then does that mean we got it wrong? I don’t

@niconyco4real @Rach4Patriarchy Ok. Fair enough. But she was challenging to debate me. This would be where she corrects me and hopes I listen. How is that ultimately different from teaching someone?

@imnotderrek @MikeWingerii I’ll respond to your questions in sequence. The KJV English has ‘the woman’ in 2:11, but it is not in the Greek. Translators often make interpretive choices which don’t always reflect the original language. 2:14 has ‘the woman’ which is the subject of 2:15 which speaks of

@The_Wry_Griot @haymes_joshua What makes you believe pastors are hammers? Proverbs 15:1 - "A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” Colossians 4:6 - "Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person."

@DavidAlWilliams @hallelujahtwit @smashbaals Paul spent extended time at several churches during his missionary journeys. Not only did he spend considerable time guiding, teaching, preaching and overseeing at these churches, but he continued to follow up with them by letter to deal with matters the

@eltrucker87 @wbigs2001 @smashbaals We were taking about elders/overseers/bishops/pastors not apostles. But you said Paul was an apostle and not an elder. I showed you scripture that an apostle can be both an apostle and an elder. The text literally says “husband” but the one providing these qual

@eltrucker87 @wbigs2001 @smashbaals But my pastor agrees with me. Or is it something else you want to talk about?

@Mockinglogos @DickSaban1 Actually, ἑνὸς ἀνδρὸς γυνή translates to 'the wife of one man,' and μιᾶς γυναικὸς ἄνδρα to 'the husband of one woman.' The phrases are equivalent in meaning but use the genitive case differently to indicate possession. It just means a faithful wife or a faithful husband.

@Rach4Patriarchy I agree with this. But it should be the same attitude in the husband

@haymes_joshua The problem here is not that she’s a woman but that she’s teaching how to use the Bible to divine a message and interpret dreams. She doesn’t read the Bible to understand God’s intended meaning. If a man taught this, would it be ok?

@Rach4Patriarchy I’m not sure I’m a great debater and debates can sometimes seem more about rhetoric than actually looking at the facts. I’d be more than happy to respond to arguments you make here. But I’m curious… in your theology are you even allowed to teach a man? Or is debating…

@Mosleya62Mosley @dannolane @Rach4Patriarchy Usually leaders are those who serve all and lead by example. They are mature, lead exemplary lives, are humble, Biblically faithful, and elders/overseers/pastors must be able to teach and correct false teaching but with gentleness and respect. They must

@reformedstateom @LordRanglican @William_E_Wolfe @G3Conference @ScottAniol What Biblical duty? Are you aware of what the Bible says about cowards? It is not cowardly to be willing to die. Jesus did it. The apostles did it. Revelation 21:8 (NASB 2020): “But for **the cowardly**, and unbelieving,

@Zari_Thustra @GavinMclnnes @onefootpicaday @marinasmigielsk This isn’t about feelings, but about consistency of the scriptures. These passages as frequently interpreted stand out in contrast to things that suggest otherwise. My only purpose was to look more deeply at these passages and try to acc

@grok @ThomasLinge24 @TheOfficeCalvin @VirgilWalkerOMA This isn’t a redefining but a going back to the source of marriage and the origin of the church as the focal point for each finding their ultimate purpose in these defining accounts. If you review section II.C.4 of A Patristic Greek Lexicon (se

@grok @ThomasLinge24 @TheOfficeCalvin @VirgilWalkerOMA Here’s the thing—kephale or head is still in play but it’s not about authority or control being in the hands of the so-called head. Rather, head is being used by Paul to refer to source or origin in relationships (see 1Cor 11:3 in particular). P

@grok @ThomasLinge24 @TheOfficeCalvin @VirgilWalkerOMA Well, it shows that 1Tim 2:12 doesn’t mean what most presume it means. If it’s not stopping women from teaching truth to anyone but has to do with a deceived teacher teaching heresy, and Jesus already clearly stated that no one is to take author

@imaso001 @smashbaals Head can mean the one who is in charge, but it has other meanings to do with prominence or first or protruding, or source or origin. From the context, Paul is not meaning authority of one gender over another as this is very clear by 1 Cor 11:11-12: 1 Corinthians 11:11–12 (NAS

@LifeWithoutLack @melvin39056 There is a sense in which there is a dividing wall between male and female, else what does Gal 3:28 refer to by suggesting this dividing wall is taken down in Christ? But I agree with you that in general, even the OT is more egalitarian than we often think. If you can

@TetzlaffJoshua @smashbaals As Paul elaborated in 1 Tim 2:13-14, Eve was deceived but Adam who was right beside her and heard what she said to the serpent sinned with knowledge since he was created first and had experience of God creating animals and plants before Eve. He knew that a plant that cam

@lostintherye @smashbaals What God said to Eve in Gen 3:16, that Adam would rule over her, was not a command to Adam, but God prophesying to Eve what would change in their relationship as a result of the fall. In His Church, Jesus tears down the dividing walls and we all become “sons” and “one new

@btgolz @Suzanne42415420 @BenZeisloft Paul is making a concession for carnal ‘Christians’ who, if they don’t marry, will fornicate because they don’t have self control. 1 Corinthians 7:6 (NASB 2020): “But this I say by way of concession, not of command.”

@KaeleyT @pauldirks I’m not sure your specific circumstances, but removing someone from an abusive situation—depending on the nature of the abuse, and raising the issue strongly to leadership would be first steps. Consideration of reporting the issue to civil authorities if things don’t go well may

@FaFfRn @Manda2364333130 @Brian_Sauve Yes indeed. But do you see an issue with my exegesis?

@KaeleyT I’m as frustrated as you by this response. But it is a sure sign that your opponent doesn’t have a strong Biblical response if they lead with pejoratives. I take it as a complement of job well done and move on to someone who actually cares about the scripture and finding truth.

@MariusM38610501 @MikeWingerii Also, Paul isn’t talking about women bearing children but about “the (definite) chidbearing (noun).” How does this reference to the seed of the woman have anything to do with women bearing children and Artemis?

@MariusM38610501 @MikeWingerii Only read the summary but the argument that 1 Tim 2:15 has to do with Artemis of the Ephesians seems foreign to this text and doesn’t deal with what Paul says in the context. His reference to Adam and Eve ought to be where we go first before Artemis who isn’t mentione

@G3Conference God doesn’t stop anyone from preaching the truth. Women may be prevented from preaching in Calvinist churches but they will continue to do so in home groups and in missions. You cannot stop the Spirit from gifting whom He desires. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@ZachWLambert Well, there’s the flood which purportedly buried millions of creatures quickly. But that probably had nothing to do with it. God knew people would think this but the problem is with their refusal to believe the scriptures and not with God. “Above all, you must understand that…

@EtAbundatGratia @JayMuratore @MikeWingerii It is eisegesis or confirmation bias to read into Gen 3:16 that she desires to rule her husband. Gen 4:7 is a different context. Sin is not a person, but metaphorically, if sin wants Cain perhaps like a woman wants her husband (which is a natural desire)

@EtAbundatGratia @JayMuratore @MikeWingerii @ryanshatz God’s design which ends at day 7 shows no evidence of the man being given the command to rule over the wife, but that they are to rule together over creation. This is an imperative plural in Gen 1:28. Gen 3:16 is not a command, but a prophecy,

@JayMuratore @MikeWingerii But how do you know what her desire is from that? Perhaps what God is saying is that despite her mistreatment, she will still desire her husband. This is played out time and time again with abusive husbands. You wonder why the woman doesn’t leave, but she holds out hope

@PrussianSouth @smashbaals Paul says it depends on self control. The gift is self control (a fruit of the spirit) not asexualism. The concession is meant for immature believers. “But I say to the unmarried and to widows that **it is good for them if they remain even as I**. But if they do not hav

@M_Jensen23 @smashbaals Even Jesus speaks of those who call him “Lord, Lord” and cast out many demons and do many works in HIs name and He says that He never knew them. Casting out demons is not proof one is a Christian, but also is certainly not proof that this is not a Christian church (the origi

@AndrewsWinnipeg Thanks for providing this reference. I like Ironside though it seems I disagree with him on this matter. I was hoping to share my exegesis of 1 Cor 11:1-16 this weekend but didn’t get enough time.

@grok @ThomasLinge24 @TheOfficeCalvin @VirgilWalkerOMA Paul is known for his creative use of Greek. BDAG doesn’t take that into consideration here. But if this means authority, it is not used elsewhere in scripture positively. And Jesus explicitly teaches against taking authority over others (which

@DoctrineTruth @CherylSchatz @JoeyRogersMBC I had a female pastor in a church I used to attend who was great, but she has since passed away. Her name was Ruth Blight. I found Kay Arthur to be an excellent teacher and preacher, but she had to do parachurch ministry as most churches wouldn’t allow he

@Autumn_Armyworm I agree that Paul says some things that are hard to understand, but I believe God included these things for our edification and so we ought to be able to understand what Paul meant.

@bigzachus @ShieldAndCross @BrotherBoaz The question though is whether nature teaches you that long hair is a shame or whether that is cultural. Nature teaches you that arm and leg hair stops growing at a certain length, but this is not the case for hair on your head regardless if you are male or f

@TimHami97610674 @TheRhetorRick @smashbaals Nature doesn't teach that men should have short hair on the head because by nature, head hair continues to grow without stopping. This is unlike the hair on your arms, legs or your eyebrows. Nature tells us that some hair only grows so long, but not head

@smashbaals Casting out demons isn’t Christianity? She does “declare” things which is an unbiblical teaching in charismatic circles, but how is casting out demons not Christian?

@GregThornberg This is the Apostle Paul's response to those who are "arrogant towards the [natural] branches": “But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be…

@Autumn_Armyworm But Paul refers to angels in 1 Cor 6:2-3. Wouldn’t it make more sense that he is using his nearest reference? That women also will judge angels one day and so should be able to decide whether to cover or uncover her head.

@JakobFel @BenZeisloft @smashbaals No, that’s not it either. But you are right it’s in the context. Here’s the ISV: 1 Corinthians 11:14–15 (ISV): “Nature itself teaches you **NEITHER** that it is disgraceful for a man to have long hair **NOR** that hair is a woman’s glory, since hair is given as

@TheRhetorRick @smashbaals But you said people were disagreeing with the Bible. How about you?

@DivinaSilentium @sanothomas That passage is referring to a specific woman in Ephesus who was teaching false doctrine such that she had left orthodoxy. But it doesn’t apply to a woman teaching the truth. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@stormsrbrewing1 @CatherineMcNiel There’s no perfect church out there as its filled with flawed individuals. But Jesus still wants us to be a part of it. Keep looking.

@bwebaptist There is no basis in Genesis for this. There is only ONE image of God and it isn’t divided amongst male and female but fully represented in each individual. https://t.co/9wdw07XZl1

@Justa_Pilgrim @clbolt Both Augustine and Aquinas were wrong on this issue. Genesis shows clearly that there is only ONE image of God and that it is not divided but shared equally between males and females. https://t.co/9wdw07XZl1

@BenZeisloft Physical fitness has some value but the emphasis ought to be on what has lasting value. “For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come” (1 Tim 4:8).

@aliciao777 Males have no other considerations other than Christ. But married women have to consider both Christ and potentially unbelieving husbands who might divorce them should they uncover their heads in public. Care to contribute to this survey? 👇 https://t.co/eeSIdxLKiJ

@pauldirks @KaeleyT Respectfully, I think calling Kaeley’s comments “vitriol” is over the top. I know you actually agreed with her objection and are nuanced on this and a sincere complementarian, but perhaps you might have a different perspective if the church was preventing white males from…

@gordjackson @justthegoods @michaelpfedun @hfjohnsen @votemichelleppc I have children. I taught them. But I’m not a professional teacher.

@ArmoryOC @Brian_Sauve You don’t seem very open. I deal with every one of these objections. I already replied to 1 Tim 2:11-15 earlier. Here is my response to 1 Cor 11:3. https://t.co/AvC4AxRErS

@ArmoryOC @Brian_Sauve You keep repeating yourself. The apostles had it right. I don’t know what all the “doctors” of the church all taught, but what matters is scripture. The Waldensiens were not modern and got this right in the 12th century. Is that it? Is that all you have?

@ArmoryOC @Brian_Sauve “A woman” not “all women.” Paul was dealing with a specific situation of a deceived woman who was ignorant but who was no longer in the faith. She was teaching heresy and her husband who wasn’t deceived was not speaking up. Paul refers to Adam and Eve as prototypes of this…

@ArmoryOC @Brian_Sauve It merely shows you can be wrong and that history favours the majority. But that doesn’t disprove or prove whether something is scripturally accurate. For that we have to actually go back and examine scripture.

@40tons70mph @Brian_Sauve @CovenantReform2 That’s not true. The church at large is not always correct. I’m not sure whether you are a Roman Catholic or not, but if you are protestant, Luther opposed the tradition of the church and protestants believe he was right. The Waldensiens said the same th

@Brian_Sauve A lot of the response is reactionary, for sure. And you are right, that properly behaving Christians set the bar high. But women rightly ask why they cannot lead or teach simply based on their biological sex when the Biblical text does not restrict them in this way. Men (and… https:/

@VinhasTJ @Brian_Sauve I guess you didn’t read my post I linked. The Greek orders “one” in front so the emphasis is on oneness or fidelity to one’s spouse. But Paul wasn’t married. Would Jesus even be qualified as an overseer? I don’t think Paul had in mind a requirement that disqualifies the…

@40tons70mph @Brian_Sauve @CovenantReform2 This isn’t directions for “a hill” but for “every hill, rock and small lump” to be taken. It’s all hands on deck. 19 centuries didn’t miss it, they just silenced or eliminated those who disagreed with them.

@Noble__Stranger @KaeleyT @Brian_Sauve @BasedRedBeard The problem is people who don’t read scripture carefully and then, thinking they know what it teaches, but unbiblical restrictions on people.

@Brian_Sauve But kids grow up and some obviously can’t have children or remain single. The prohibition of women teaching theology doesn’t work Biblically.

@playoncrutches @hfjohnsen @votemichelleppc You may think it’s stupid, but kids are like sponges taking in as gospel truth whatever they are told by teachers. They also respond to encouragement and peer pressure. Puberty is also a confusing time; it’s no time to make life changing decisions about

@YouMayCallMeV1 @DickSaban1 @BibleBashed I never said that. I said there is more involved here than just the woman, but Dadbod is targeting women using a text that seems to implicate the man (likely due to the patriarchal nature of the culture at that time). Dadbod also thinks that men are suppose

@DickSaban1 @YouMayCallMeV1 @BibleBashed What is the man’s role in the abortion? Nothing? What about the doctor who agrees to do it? You seem to believe men are to be the leaders of women—the ones responsible for them, but you give them a free pass when it comes to abortion?

@doomsdayslam @CruzControl72 @OrderChristian That verse is not a generic prohibition of all woman but applies to a specific deceived woman teaching false doctrine at the church at Ephesus. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@JohnPiper But you don’t apply this consistently. Doesn’t your total depravity teaching say all means all in Rom 3:10-18? “They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt”? Yet this quote from Psalms 14 starts out specifying who it is referring to: “The fool says in his…

@LadyDemosthenes @OPRisely @pgklee @mark_petereit That passage in Timothy—vs 11-15⎯ is addressing a specific deceived woman who is teaching false doctrine, and her husband who is not deceived but silent—just like their prototypes, Eve and Adam. I summarize this and provide a link to a thread with r

@MargMowczko I don't get the sense that adult children were told to "obey" their parents. Perhaps that's how things were in the culture, but I don't see that in scripture. I only see adult children to honour one's parents.

@mark_petereit @LadyDemosthenes That sounds like an obvious solution, but the Bible requires chewing the cud, not eating like swine. The surface level reading is not always what the author intended. https://t.co/ndFJKAjotR

@LadyDemosthenes @OPRisely @pgklee @mark_petereit You are right, but the command to subject themselves is an imperative. It would seem that if they don’t, some other actions may follow. But these verses are Paul quoting from the letter from the Corinthians and refuting the males who are silencing

@DickSaban1 @Peacemaker811 @PubliusJosephus You are just assuming your opinion. I have shown over and over that you are misconstruing the meaning of those texts. Then assuming your conclusion you assume Priscilla cannot teach a man. But it is very unusual to list the woman first meaning she is mo

@fishercatMaine Thanks for the encouragement! It seems so obvious to me now but I grew up complementarian too…so it took me time to unwind the knots so I have sympathy for others.

@DickSaban1 @Peacemaker811 @PubliusJosephus But Paul talks about married women "managing" their households: “Therefore, I want younger widows to get married, have children, manage their households, and give the enemy no opportunity for reproach” (1 Timothy 5:14, NASB 2020). https://t.co/Qe75SjJJDW

@TruthSeekerTKS @SamuelJJack2 Paul wasn’t silencing women, but quoting from the Judiazers in the Corinthian church who wrote what Paul quoted in vv34-35 and then Paul rebuked these men for silencing half the body. https://t.co/WHlrSQvbxX

@elizabethprata @pastorpilgrim @Lily_Warrior @aimeebyrdPYW @JJumping @ajjumping God is also a helper and that doesn’t mean He is underneath our authority. The creation order has to do with deception, not authority. There is no hierarchy displayed in the original creation. In fact, God commanded t

@elizabethprata @Lily_Warrior @pastorpilgrim @aimeebyrdPYW @JJumping @ajjumping The reference to creation was to show that Adam and Eve were prototypes of this couple in Ephesus. The woman is deceived and ignorant and teaching false doctrine, but the man is not deceived but is silent and doing noth

@elizabethprata @pastorpilgrim @Lily_Warrior @aimeebyrdPYW @JJumping @ajjumping The creation order has to do with deception, not authority. Adam saw God in the act of creation of plants and animals…and likely Eve, but Eve herself was the last thing created. So she could be deceived to think eating

@David_Fairchild @JollyStine @CovenantReform2 @ScottRagan @haymes_joshua Take a look at the following summary. Its hard to summarize succinctly, but I gave it my best shot. At the end, there’s a link where you will find a thread with much more details and references, especially for interpretation

@BogdanOancea77 BTW, one wonders how you can ever be convinced the way you are arguing on this. I suppose you could say the same to me. Look, if you want to remain a complementarian, by all means⎯please do so. You need to follow your convictions. But let those of us who are convinced that…

@bishopofhippos @montananmark @JohnPiper Often Bible studies don't involve all aspects of a service, but they are far more participatory than the one-way sermon setting of most churches. Mine provides time for the congregation to share in response to the message which is rare nowadays, but even gre

@Nickidewbear @Bob_LeeIII @ortrails @goteamcarr Well, I do agree that there were instances where women couldn't enter into a binding vow without the husband or father confirming it. But I think this is more nuanced than we are thinking it is. For example, Lapidoth (Deborah's husband) is not said t

@aflawedmanofGod @tatmia1 @M_Jensen23 @ortrails @goteamcarr No one failed me. I'm looking to Jesus who did not use any advantages he had to his own advantage, but instead to serve others, even the lowliest...even Judas whom Jesus stated was a devil. If you claim to have authority or advantage as a

@M_Jensen23 @aflawedmanofGod @ortrails @goteamcarr There is a certain patriarchal structure that seems to be inherent in the Old Testament and the law that is different from the man ruling over the woman. I believe the patriarchy we see was a result of the fall, but not all of it is bad as the male

@PastorSJCamp Thanks for sharing those reflections! Without seeing the film, I was thinking maybe they meant that there was no new revelation, as in adding to scripture. But it seems that they don't understand valid prophecy and tongues, which is primary boldly explaining God's will from…

@aflawedmanofGod @sailemptyskies @M_Jensen23 @ortrails @goteamcarr Well, it goes back further than you think. The Waldensiens which were pre-Luther welcomed both men and women ministers. But history is not the greatest guide. If you are a Protestant, then you would clearly assert that the histori

@aflawedmanofGod @sailemptyskies @M_Jensen23 @ortrails @goteamcarr You are negatively framing my intentions and trying to discredit me by calling my efforts trash. But that’s not how you convince anyone of anything. How about actually engaging with the scripture? That said, no one is forcing you

@RealerBrogan @YoungOneJosh1 @cheryl_hanks @rightresponsem Maybe this is for another time, but I’d be curious what this real authority is that you have over your wife? Mike Winger says he decides by consensus. So he claims to have authority but never uses it. I don’t see how that is something worth

@aflawedmanofGod @tatmia1 @M_Jensen23 @ortrails @goteamcarr I'm gunning for the top, so I'm aiming for the bottom 😏 "But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “'You know that the rulers of the Gentiles domineer over them, and those in high position exercise authority over them. It is not this way

@E_C_Onugha @tolusefrancis @Zeeleciouz @Solomon_Buchi I’m not looking for your confirmation. Mutual submission is all over the New Testament. 1.Phil 2:3-4 - “Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but

@tolusefrancis @Zeeleciouz @Solomon_Buchi However, when someone lays their life down for others, this is the ultimate act of submission. "Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility consider one another as more important than yourselves” (Phil 2:3). https://t.co/RFuRSEEYVU

@Zeeleciouz @Solomon_Buchi He said "A Christian man was not instructed to submit to his wife" and yet this passage says "the husband also does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does"⎯If the husband does not submit to his wife, then the fact that he does not have authority over his o

@JamesDa10599361 @BradyJBush @Stephen_Angliss In this passage, it is a noun preceded by the definite article, or "the childbearing." So its not a verb, but since Paul was referring to Eve earlier, I believe its a reference to the seed of the woman (the Christ).

@Solomon_Buchi Headship here doesn’t refer to authority over but to origin or source of. https://t.co/CfGz4nbrJA

@Solomon_Buchi There’s a verse that explicitly calls the man to also submit to his wife: "The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise the husband also does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does" (1 Cor 7:4, NIV). https://t.co/CfGz4nbrJA

@conscious_emma @JohannSchultz7 @musicbykwiz @CaudilloNuclear This is close. But I think the only way to make sense of all the details is if Paul was quoting from the letter from the Corinthians (see 1 Cor 7:1) and then refuting those men who were trying to silence half the body. https://t.co/WHlrS

@Jamrocker4ever @MAClark85 Well, in the first appearance in Acts, it wasn't to reach unreached cultures or to reveal new revelations meant to be written down in the Bible, but to speak to God⎯and as a sign. It is also used by Paul privately, so that is not a sign for others, but for his own edifica

@thunk_huda The reference to the law is part of the quote from what the Corinthians wrote. There were Judiazers infiltrating many of the churches at that time. The “law” is not found in scripture but in the Talmud which Jews consider the oral law—but it’s more like a commentary and…

@TheMcGloneCode @smashbaals Paul is elaborating on why wives have to consider their husbands in the matter of head coverings. "Now I praise you because you...hold firmly to the traditions:...but I want you to understand..." (1 Cor 11:1-3a). Paul is explaining the reason for the tradition of head c

@sisi_siki_ In 1 Tim 2:11-15, Paul’s instruction to Timothy included dealing with false teachers like a specific deceived woman who was outside of the essentials. He wasn’t instructed to stop anyone from teaching the truth. This woman’s husband was not deceived, but was silent like Adam… https://t

@BraunHB0 @BrotherRasheed I’m not sure why you brought this passage up in response to something from the Koran, but Paul is actually quoting from a letter from the Corinthians and refuting the men who are attempting to silence the women. https://t.co/WHlrSQvbxX

@bannedby Well, they are the ones separating from me…at least this particular person, especially if he treats me as an atheist. Most of my Calvinist pastor friends would let me be a member of their church, but just won’t let me be a leader. I’m also called semi pelagian which is…

@DDinho555 @Fahim_4real @Sa_Gwang Women preaching true doctrine or pastoring (making disciples according to Matt 28:18-20) is heresy?? I realize you believe it is wrong but heresy is usually reserved for things that make someone outside of the faith. Where is women teaching truth listed in any lis

@Holistic_Voyeur @Bellisima_2004 The Bible is not illogical! I challenge you to put it up to serious scrutiny. Anything that is true can withstand serious scrutiny. The problem with the Bible is that people read it like pigs. They don’t carefully think about what they are reading, but instead ta

@Bellisima_2004 @Holistic_Voyeur You are welcome. It is unfortunate when people are stuck in their traditions and don’t allow themselves or their church or denomination to recognize their misunderstanding and change. Change does happen but it is hard.

@Bellisima_2004 @RoxyWright0 @Holistic_Voyeur You are right that there are many who try to interpret the Bible in various ways. This is why there are groups called cults which are considered non Christian and why there are various denominations who take some non primary things differently. But you

@Based_Byzantine @HabitualLinest @Booksbyjess__ @smashbaals That's what it has become to be, but all have the precise same requirements scripturally. Whether one is over multiple churches or over one church, they have the same requirements and job function...Biblically speaking.

@Based_Byzantine @HabitualLinest @Booksbyjess__ @smashbaals Oh, please show me where Timothy is called a bishop? I see all these terms, bishop/overseer/elder/pastor to all end up meaning the same thing as they end up being used interchangeably, but I'm curious which passage you found Timothy to be

@Based_Byzantine @HabitualLinest @Booksbyjess__ @smashbaals Bishop/overseer (ἐπίσκοπος, episkopos) and elder (πρεσβύτερος, presbyteros) are used interchangeably in scripture when speaking of leaders in the church. We might use them differently now, but in the NT they were used to refer to the same

@Based_Byzantine @HabitualLinest @Booksbyjess__ @smashbaals It was a personal letter of instruction and encouragement to Timothy which we can benefit from. But in order to benefit from it, we have to ascertain what Paul meant by what he said to Timothy. Of course it is useful for other churches...

@NSanctification @ronhenzel In Acts 13:48 we still have operation of individuals but acting together as a group. The key is the use of the middle voice. First, we have to recall in context that there was a group who judged themselves unworthy of life: “Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said,

@Based_Byzantine @HabitualLinest @Booksbyjess__ @smashbaals I agree Paul is saying that a woman, a specific deceived woman, is not to “authentein” over a man, her husband. Paul uses Adam and Eve as prototypes of this couple in Ephesus. The husband is not deceived, but is silent and saying nothing.

@YoungOneJosh1 @cheryl_hanks @rightresponsem Yes, that is true. But the word is also used in Song of Solomon 7:10 Gen 4:7 – sin’s desire is for Cain Song 7:10 – woman says her beloved’s desire is for her Given that Gen 3:16 is regarding the relationship b/w a wife and her husband, which of the abo

@BenColavita @onus2579 @tonyrigatonee @punishedmother You are just explaining what you think this passage means. I mean the context of the letter. Who was Paul writing it to? What is the purpose of his writing? What does he say about those who blaspheme but are deceived and those who are not deceive

@Based_Byzantine @HabitualLinest @Booksbyjess__ @smashbaals But it doesn't say women are not permitted to teach. "A woman" has a definite reference in v14, "the woman." It is a specific woman not all women.

@OkieLibSherry @nakedpastor In this particular instance scripture says 7 men were chosen and gives their names. However, we have little details on specific people who are called deacons or elders in the New Testament. Only two (Peter and John) self identify as elders, but we know there are many mo

@blackmamba_btc @AEQEA @nakedpastor Why are you laughing? The only thing that matters is the Greek. We haven’t lost that. The NASB is pretty good at getting to the original, but if you want the word by word, here it is. “They…explained” (plural). They both explained to him the way more accurate

@blackmamba_btc @AEQEA @nakedpastor The reason the husband is said to be the kehpale of the wife is because of Adam and Eve ⎯ Eve was created from Adam as her source. Adam was created first. But authority doesn’t come from being created first or else animals would have authority over Adam.

@blackmamba_btc @AEQEA @BrotherBoaz @nakedpastor Word of God. But Paul is quoting from the Corinthian letter to Paul in this passage. What Paul is doing in refuting them from silencing women is the word of God. Silencing women is not God’s will.

@blackmamba_btc @AEQEA @BrotherBoaz @nakedpastor But not all women teach false doctrine and there are men who also teach false doctrine. We cannot generalize something that Paul doesn’t generalize. He left Timothy in Ephesus to stop false teachers not to stop women from teaching true doctrine.

@Hallucinator33 @DinosaurLes @Richard56245924 @churchofengland Yes, I’m not claiming Paul’s writings are not scripture. But Peter also notes that Paul writes some things that are hard to understand (2 Pet 3:16) and Peter is a contemporary of Paul. A restriction on the body of Christ requires solid

Why did the apostles choose 7 males and did not include women to lead in the distribution of food to the Hellenistic widows in Acts 6? https://t.co/jJmnP3Gb9W

@nakedpastor Jesus had reasons for the 12 being male but it is true that many women also were of his disciples. And yhe apostles were before the start of the church. In the church, the ethnic, gender and socioeconomic barriers were torn down. I go through the scriptures here. https://t.co/4tYGBal

@heaveniscallin1 @FrMatthewLC 1 Tim 5:9 uses the wording ἑνὸς ἀνδρὸς γυνή (or one husband wife) though not in the context of leadership. When Paul uses "one wife husband" in 1 Tim 3:2,12 and Titus 1:6, I see this as generic of monogomy but I think this phrasing is chosen over μονογαμία (monogamy) t

@DickSaban1 @Peacemaker811 @PubliusJosephus Qualifications are based on character, not one’s sex, skin color, whether they are married or not or their social status. You are reading into the requirements what you were brought up to believe. Not sure I understand your next point, but pastors are no

@DickSaban1 @aflawedmanofGod @ortrails @goteamcarr You are not reading Isaiah 3:12 in context (see below). What Paul says is consistent with his other letters. Yes, only male Levites were the only ones allowed to be priests as that is what was in the law. But in the church, the dividing wall betw

@pauldirks @FionaKabuki @KevinaFaga @KaeleyT You seem to be trying to show that there are differences between males and females and that those differences may get them ahead in different societal roles and that they need to be careful to wield their strength or beauty for good and not for evil. Gra

@Booksbyjess__ @smashbaals I explained that in the post I linked. Was Paul not an overseer himself? Surely he was. Yet he was single and advocated for singleness (1 Cor 7:7). Therefore, if it doesn’t require marriage (but means faithful if married) then it doesn’t mean “must be male.” Paul does

@Based_Byzantine @Booksbyjess__ @smashbaals I’m not advocating for tradition but for the Apostolic instructions in scripture. 2 Tim 3:16–17 (NIV): “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God  may be THOROU

@PastorObscure @William_E_Wolfe @G3Conference Not sure how you are defining your terms, but here’s the way I’m using them: ⎯ feminism/Matriarchy: female priority —masculinism/Patriarchy: male priority —egalitarianism: merit based, skills and qualifications regardless of gender. Equal opportunity, n

@theblaze I understand this concern, but allowing gifted, qualified and faithful women to preach and teach is not the same as promoting gender fluidity and going outside the bounds of sex being between one man and one woman "until death do they part." The solution is a careful study of…

@wgrapperhaus By secondary I don’t mean unimportant but things we can disagree on without dividing. For instance, the age of the universe—it is important as it impacts on what we think of the truthfulness of Genesis 1 and 2, about evil, disease and death existing before sin…but not essential…

@pauldirks @PerinDana But my point is not that Sarah doesn't submit to Abraham, but that they have a mututally submissive relationship.

@PerinDana @pauldirks This is like our older English use of “Sir” and “Ma’am.” “Yes, sir” and “yes, ma’am” can come off sounding slavish, but these are how each of us shows we are bending our will towards the other, not an acknowledgment that we are in a subservient role relationship.

@PerinDana @pauldirks That is correct. There are things each person brings regarding gifts and abilities and desires (which has many contributing factors) and to look at their gender, or ethnicity or socioeconomic status and to say “I recognize the gift that God has clearly given to you, but it is…

@ShotClockTodd @HeidiSchlumpf If you correct me by scripture, I respond to that. You can call me names, but that doesn’t really bother me.

@thiskidsgotball @ThomasReeseSJ @NCRonline @HeidiSchlumpf @dearmisskate Well… I host a Bible study where I have Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Dutch Reformed, Alliance, Pentecostal and Baptists coming. We obviously don’t agree on everything, but get along rather fine. I would agree with most of what Ma

@The_Lilion @HeidiSchlumpf I don’t know what this picture is referring to or proving, but are you suggesting this is evidence for women deacons/elders/bishops—women leaders?

@HeidiSchlumpf I’m not a Roman Catholic, but I think this still applies. Women in the church have been treated as a sub-species of man for too long. It’s time to not suppress them from roles just because of their gender. This should be about character, gifting, ability and desire. https://t.co/4t

@MarksSara72430 @pauldirks @KaeleyT Yes, that’s exactly right. The danger is what lurks in the heart. A woman is not dangerous just because of her beauty. Further, attraction is also in the eye of the one observing, so not everyone responds equally. Women should dress modestly (as also should me

@Chi_Rho_PC I don’t rely on Dr. Keener’s treatment but get to a similar result as him by analyzing the text of scripture alone.

@DavidGr08051597 @TaylorRMarshall That may indeed be the best history ever written on this, but it isn’t supported by scripture. “The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise the wife also to her husband” (1Cor 7:3).

@ThomasReeseSJ @NCRonline @HeidiSchlumpf @dearmisskate Hmm…but scripture says we are ALL priests (1 Pet 2:5,9), so the idea that women who are already priests can’t become priests is a non-issue. Rather, the real question is whether someone can serve as an elder/pastor/overseer/bishop/deacon. On t

@FNCNN1 @RepMTG This is not about all women, but a specific deceived woman teaching in Ephesus. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@PubliusJosephus @Peacemaker811 @DickSaban1 Romans 16:3–5 (NIV): “Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus. They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. **Greet also the church that meets at their house.**”

@pauldirks @KaeleyT In that way of viewing things, even a butter knife is dangerous as someone could use it to murder someone. No, rather, the proper way of thinking about these matters is that the danger is in the human heart.

@ryanvisconti I came across the following on the requirements of pastors and found it quite enlightening as well. "Such requirements disqualify from service not only women, but also all men who are single; all men married but childless; all men married but who have only one child; all men…

@PastorTSheppard @Jgrey2003 @pastordmack Gen 3:16 is not a command for Adam to rule over Eve. If it was, why did God say it to Eve? "To the woman He said..." - The word "rule" is in the imperfect. It could be considered future tense. God is saying to Eve what will happen. - "shall rule" sounds l

@Jason93044787 @LogunWynn @megbasham I understand that perspective. There are those who try to say the Bible is ok with homosexuality, but think about this for a moment: that is in a clear list of sins and is described in the OT in a clear manner. On the other hand, this is saying that someone pre

@PastorTSheppard @Jgrey2003 @pastordmack Where is the law in the Bible that women were to be “completely silent” in the congregation? It doesn’t say “women should not lead” but “women should remain silent” and the reason that speaking in the assembly is immoral, indecent, shameful. Are we reading

@NBidnz I guess the block button doesn’t work for women when blocking male accounts. I’m pointing out how she blocked me for presenting a Biblical argument when in her system, I as a male was simply pointing out something from scripture. I wasn’t calling her names or a heretic or being…

@LogunWynn @megbasham Such an easy thing to say that one sentence. But it takes work to actually study the scripture to make sure you got it right. Is it good to condemn someone for something that is not a sin? Then you ought to be careful. How is 1 Tim 2:12 a “clear” command that all women shou

@megbasham It is fine for those who believe the pastorate should be males to keep on doing what they are doing. But they shouldn’t be kicking out other churches that disagree with their views on this. Why not? Because it’s not a primary matter of faith and it is not sin. https://t.co/4tYGBalq90

@YoloSwag7878 @William_E_Wolfe @bartbarber You are certainly right that if someone rejects what they believe to be the plain teaching of scripture, that bodes poorly for other matters and the slope has been greased. But there are many of us who are egalitarians *because* of a careful study of scrip

@William_E_Wolfe @bartbarber Did you forget that the church belongs to Jesus and not to the SBC or to @bartbarber? No one should be disfellowshipping anyone over something that is not a primary matter of the faith or a sin issue. The SBC has gone too far. You don’t have to agree with egalitarians

@JustinPetersMin I object because the SBC disfellowshipped them on the basis of something that should have never been listed in any statement of faith. This is Jesus’ body, not the SBC’s private kingdom!! They don’t have to agree with egalitarians, but they do have to work with them. https://t.co/

@megbasham @bartbarber Rather, @bartbarber ⎯ please justify why you are dividing Jesus’ body based on something that is not the basis of our faith and is not listed in a list of sins in scripture. You don’t have to agree with egalitarians. **But you do need to work with them.** https://t.co/4tYGBa

@witchontrial @slowchemicaljpg No need to. But make sure you teach the truth. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@SayyadinaHeresy @SpillmanThom @keirburrows @Saturniidae8 Paul refers to the creation order not to explain hierarchy or authority—otherwise animals would be over humans—but to explain why Adam wasn’t deceived and Eve was. Adam saw God creating things…even the forbidden tree. Eve was the last thing

@godlywomanhood 1 Cor 7:4–6 (NIV): “The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so…

@godlywomanhood Ok, but the husband and wife both submit to each other. Submit is in Eph 5:21, not in Eph 5:22. https://t.co/Z58JiQI6JM https://t.co/T5r9cgv2Xx

@godlywomanhood Women are not more easily deceived. Eve was deceived and Adam was not because Adam was created first—and then experienced God creating things—but Eve, the last created, did not. Here’s what 1 Tim 2:11-15 is about in a nutshell. https://t.co/rBGS8Fof6Y

@rightresponsem It is not the job of Christians to force Christian behaviour on unbelievers. This is the critical error of CN. "For what business of mine is it to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the evil person…

@hungus14 @AngelaPaxtonTX I’m a man. I don’t need to be silent. But Paul wasn’t silencing women either. https://t.co/WHlrSQvbxX

@Jgrey2003 @PastorTSheppard @pastordmack Why do you think it is wrong? Paul is responding to the letter from the Corinthians (1 Cor 7:1). The statement in 1 Cor 14:34-35 contradicts the inclusivity of the rest of the chapter (see v31). The reference to the law is not found in scripture, but is fo

@PubliusJosephus @DickSaban1 @njbemont It’s not about teaching “authority” but about gifting. It’s a serving role for the growth, maturity and protection of the body, not a ruling over role.

@pjgurry Your argument is not even needed for your view because submit is elsewhere explicitly use of wives to their husbands. But does it mean hierarchy and authority? That is the question. https://t.co/4OFLov6G50

Finally, Paul is not instituting a hierarchy, but calling all believers—including husbands—to lives of self-giving, Spirit-filled mutuality. To miss this is to risk treating the gospel’s transforming power as just an endorsement of the status quo—exactly what Paul was not doing.

And God is said to be the kephale of Christ (1Co 11:3). Jesus’ body was prepared by the Father (Heb 10:5; Ps 40:7). Jesus “…came forth from the Father…” (Jn 16:28) Also, “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.” (Jn 6:38)… https://t.co/QG7FxnLX5V

@BogdanOancea77 @ReyannaRice @CovenantReform2 @lynna_listens No, he is not just talking about salvation. For one, we know that in the Mosaic covenant, only Levite males without defect are permitted to be priests. No females and no Gentiles were allowed. But in the Church, all believers are priest

@aflawedmanofGod @ortrails @goteamcarr Being a Berean doesn’t require agreement but eagerly listening and searching the scriptures. In the church, believers are all priests—without gender distinctions. 1.1 Pet 2:5,9: “You yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be

@Tomasdearc @colinsmo I don’t know the specifics of this church. But the SBC kicked out a number of churches so they may have seen the sign 🪧 on the wall “Not Welcome” and decided to leave before they were hunted.

@Prawnter_ You are right that if you get there by going against what you see as the clear teaching of scripture, then you will do that for other things. But if you get there because of a deep understanding of scripture has led you there, this doesn't lead to apostasy.…

@tomascol @DineshDSouza There is certainly an issue with churches doing something that appears to contradict the Bible by ignoring the Bible. That can lead down a slippery slope to worse things. But what if that church gets to a different conclusion because of the Bible? https://t.co/vsUEIFzlmE

@Christocentrism Isn't that what an overseer means? Someone who oversees the teaching and theology of the church? It doesn't mean oppressive control, but to help bring correction and assistance where necessary and to preach and teach. https://t.co/k7jgeSuuc5

@GMErectheus @abitztony1 @TaylorRMarshall Yes, I hold to scripture. "Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." (Acts 2:38) But this does not mean you can baptize an infant and confer salvation forcibly without any invol

@JoshuaSethSchu1 @ortrails @goteamcarr The main concern I have is when they come to this conclusion by ignoring or rejecting passages like 1 Tim 2:11-15, 1 Cor 14:34-36, 1 Tim 3:1-13, and 1 Cor 11:1-16. I think other scriptures are positive towards women, but we should not ignore or set aside any s

@BaptistHoldout @ortrails @goteamcarr Firstly, thank you for the complements on my physique 😊. But you really ought to thank the apostle Paul who wrote the text that way. "[Paul] writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are ha

@ortrails @DavidMGreen16 @goteamcarr The 12 male disciples were chosen before the church began. They were also all Jewish. But once the church was formed, the barriers on the basis of ethnicity, gender and socioeconomic status were removed. That many in the church didn’t act this way is unfortuna

@joekanyou @AlamoRememberer @RGIII In 1 Cor 11:7, Paul is not saying that a wife is not also the glory of God, but she is both the glory of God and of her husband. Paul is explaining the basis for the tradition of removing head coverings when praying or prophesying as they didn’t fully understand w

@unbannnableman @AlamoRememberer @RGIII Because these passages seem to restrict women. This is also the tendency of men…to rule over women. But on a closer inspection of these texts we discover this was a twisting of Paul’s intent.

@DickSaban1 @AlamoRememberer @RGIII There’s a few that have the same take but not many that put it all together this way. So I could quote commentaries for specific points but not one that gets it all…at least not one I know of yet. I quote Belleville regarding authentein if you followed the link

@kevinmyoung But it is what my saviour and Lord left me to so that I would have everything I need to do every good work. “All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man or woman of God may be fully…

@GodisGreat2022 This is emphasizing source relationships. Paul is helping the Corinthians to understand the reasons behind the traditions he passed down and which they are dutifully following. Because there are some exceptions⎯such as when a wife becomes a Christian but her husband remains an…

@rabinahakin Yes, wives should submit to their husbands⎯not as owners or overlords, but as unto the Lord⎯with that same love and affection. But the "submit" is actually in verse 21: "...and subject yourselves to one another in the fear of Christ." And that certainly means husbands…

@ortrails @goteamcarr I find it sad that this church left a co-operation with the SBC. I'm sure the SBC has its own issues in other areas, but we need to learn to work with each other despite our differences and treat secondary issues really as secondary.

@ortrails @goteamcarr In this first letter from Paul to Timothy, Paul left Timothy in Ephesus to stop false teaching, not to stop women from teaching true doctrine. Paul talks about two types of false teachers: the deceived and those who are not. He names the latter, but grace is shown to the…

@AlamoRememberer @RGIII This is not to approve of whatever lifestyle is being promoted here, but I'd like to respond to your comment on 1 Tim 2:11-15. In this letter from Paul to Timothy, Paul left Timothy in Ephesus to stop false teaching, not to stop women from teaching true doctrine. Paul talks

@darylsterk @EKHyland Take a look at this thread. Paul left Timothy to stop false teaching in Ephesus, not to stop women from teaching true doctrine. There is a deceived woman who is off the reservation and she is ‘committing spiritual murder’ over her husband who is not deceived but remains… http

@Ro12Two @nickmobrien You have to go back to scripture to test all things. If the Apostle Paul himself⎯and even angels⎯ are subject to scripture, then so is the Roman Catholic Church. “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be…

@_nomadic_soul I see. This is someone from your former church then? I've had that happen to me too. I ended up having to leave that church, but we are in another one now and it is much better.

@DST_QA I think that Paul was taking into consideration the difficulties and persecutions they would face and wanted to spare them. “But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I…

@_nomadic_soul Ok, but its online... Does that happen in church? Most people who hide behind a screen don't have the guts to say stuff like that in person.

@TakTik227f1 @Genichiro42069 @KaitlynSchiess That verse says "a woman". You cannot make it plural when it is singular. This is Paul's grammar and yes, its complicated, but Paul tended to write some things that are hard to understand (2 Pet 3:16). Paul has asked Timothy to remain at Ephesus to sto

@DST_QA I'm glad you found this helpful. Paul uses the third person plural to refer to the women in vv34-35, but the second person plural in the "you" of v36. It would be rather odd if Paul were commanding about women and then rebuking them and changing from third to second person.

@DST_QA We know women can be prophets elsewhere in scripture, so "you can all prophesy" would have to have "you males can all prophesy" to make it clear. Because "God is not a God of confusion, but of peace" (1 Cor 14:33).

@DST_QA It is not about authority or assuming authority. You appear to be connecting this to 1 Tim 2:12, but that is dealt with in another thread. What makes perfect sense is that the Jewish men who need to pray and do their readings with a pure state of mind, when they hear women… https://t.co/Os

@DST_QA "...the women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says." (v34) This is saying that the Law "also" says the same thing as summarized previously. Where does the law also say that one gender…

@DST_QA But that's my point, the context and the details of vv34-35 clearly shows us that Paul is quoting from the letter the Corinthians wrote.

@TakTik227f1 @KaitlynSchiess So Paul means that only the men can prophecy and only the men can learn? But Paul assumes women are praying and prophesying in the congregation in 1 Cor 11:5. Why does he say all in 1 Cor 14:31 and not "all males"? What happens to single women and widows who have no h

@PGRodriguez80 @Latterdaytruth No apostle or believer is said to baptize with the Spirit or with fire. They can lay hands or pray and the Spirit may come (eg Ac 8:17; 19:6), but the baptism itself remains an act of Christ alone.

@conserve1689 @TheSBCPlatform @BaptistPress @sbcamendment I hear what you are saying. But it really depends on how it is handled. My current church is egalitarian and they are leaving a denomination that is liberal on LGBTQ, so they are proof that it is not guaranteed. Here's the key: if you acce

@CrankyKat @DeniedTitan @RevJacquiLewis There’s a soft side to this complementarian view that is certainly appealing, but it still misses some things about these passages and inserts authority and hierarchy and gender based roles that are not what the scripture is teaching for believers in Christ’s

@ChristMount777 @TheSBCPlatform @BaptistPress @sbcamendment Im not a paedo Baptist, though my pastor will baptise infants if requested. I will never request that nor recommend anyone to do that but I still go to this church. Do I think it has impact? Yes! But it may be that through my influence

@cofling_a @EmilyMcgowin I’m a conservative egalitarian. Not a slippery slope type. Not sure what you learned in seminary but doubtful you heard something that puts every detail together.

@KaeleyT “But my husband loves me, and he knows my struggle. He knows I can’t sit idly by while women are being mistreated in front of me, so he supported my weakness in this department by lending his strength.” 👍👍

@pauldirks @take_me_jesus @KaeleyT @CatholicABear Yes, I’m also fine with that. But how do you get from this that women cannot lead? Also there are single women and widows who don’t have family obligations.

@pauldirks @KaeleyT @CatholicABear Mom is more connected to the baby through the physical process. Her love and care will be evident through this connection, but that doesn’t mean she is “better” only that she is “needed.” https://t.co/GveCkMIEvU

@goldnecklace2 @KaeleyT @pauldirks @CatholicABear I think it’s reasonable to fill in gaps, but recognizing that Kaeley said she agreed with you. Why act as her adversary when she agrees with you?

@j_bryan_price @GrandmaD62 @TaylorRMarshall @smashbaals Language has limitations and can be misinterpreted, but this does not mean that the meaning of its author is lost and requires someone else to tell you what it means. Everything and everyone is tested and compared to scripture.

@pauldirks @KaeleyT @CatholicABear Paul, I think that this is a mischaracterization of what Kaeley is saying. We believe there are differences and that both mother and father are needed but you want to turn this into “Women cannot lead.”

@j_bryan_price @TaylorRMarshall @smashbaals So “all scripture AND TRADITION is inspired by God…”? But wouldn’t that be adding to what God said?

@EllaFlash @b161750 @TheMuppetPastor They both chose to sin, but Adam was not deceived because of his experience with God and observing Him creating prior to Eve who didn’t have this experience. https://t.co/iWB1ySMcbN

@Butch30586594 No, this is referring to a transcription error in Euripides' text not the Bible.

@DavidCShell1 @Emma41913442572 @p3_1415926i @TnShitStirrer @Eric_Conn What makes you think every Christian believed what you do? Even if all got it wrong, the apostles didn’t. Jesus picked 12 Jewish males but we don’t say only Jewish males can be pastors. Just because the Jews were picked first c

@godlyHomeGirl 1 Tim 2:11-12 is Paul dealing with a specific deceived woman who is teaching false doctrine. She has gone off the reservation, but her husband is not deceived yet is not doing anything about it. Since she is deceived, Paul doesn't name her. https://t.co/LPisirHz38

@TeregianKunta @AnyineKu @Milly_nassolo 1 Tim 2:11-12 is Paul dealing with a specific deceived woman who is teaching false doctrine. She has gone off the reservation, but her husband is not deceived yet is not doing anything about it. Since she is deceived, Paul doesn't name her. https://t.co/LPis

@ymmotrojam @MattSmethurst But isn’t v34-35 just addressing married women interrupting with questions? What if the woman has a prophecy or a scripture to share?

@ymmotrojam @MattSmethurst “Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy” (1Co 14:1) This is addressed to the whole church, not just men. Shouldn’t women pursue love and spiritual gifts? If they desire to prophesy, how are you understanding that they are n

@ymmotrojam @MattSmethurst Sure but when a typical ‘whole’ church gets together today, only one person speaks. Though there may be female prophets, they do not get to speak. How then are these churches following 1Cor 14?

@Rach4Patriarchy How do you define “venerate”? I regard the apostles with respect but if I were to create icons of them and pray to them that would cross a line over to things that should only be done to God. https://t.co/3Ojwi7PuxL

@cwierzbicki9 Wrong letter. 1 Tim 2:15. “But she [singular, feminine] will be preserved [future] through the [definite article] childbearing [noun]—if they [plural] continue in faith, love, and sanctity, with moderation.” Try explaining it yourself.

@Ken_FiveSolas Not commenting on the choice to make a sermon centred around the Barbie movie, but that text does not prohibit women from teaching true doctrine. Take another look…I go through it in the following thread. https://t.co/GWXXBQrZnv

@MaThomas0702 @TaffiDollar This is not to promote anyone teaching false doctrine, but that there is not a gender restriction on preachers. Check it out. https://t.co/4iAqpAlfC7

@TimothyGroves2 @RongpiSr @NoHolyScripture 1 Tim 2:11-15 refers to a specific deceived woman (like Eve was deceived) whose husband is not deceived but is silent (like Adam was). Paul doesn't name her in his letter to Timothy as she evidently had not been confronted yet. The grammar and all details

@DST_QA @YourCalvinist I go through in detail what 1 Tim 2:11-15 is referring to. In short, there is a specific woman in Ephesus that is deceived (like Eve was) whose husband is not but is silent (like Adam). Paul doesn't name her because Timothy hasn't spoken to her yet. https://t.co/LPisirHz38

@Buzzsaws1990 @Rach4Patriarchy That point in BDAG is refuting that the Hebrew passages listed do NOT establish the meaning cousin. The Hebrew is used loosely in isolated cases, but this is the Greek and the context doesn't make sense of cousin. The Greek has a completely different word for cousin.

@Rach4Patriarchy There are certainly a lot of problems in the protestant church (well, most churches), but it would seem that your main issue is with egalitarian views on gender. Treating this as a major issue and not a secondary matter is serious. Please stop dividing the body! https://t.co/4tYGB

@AdamJKrejci @Rach4Patriarchy We must go back to scripture on these things. Yes, it is possible to misinterpret it, but it seems clear to me that the ideas you are proposing come from somewhere else than a plan reading of the text.

@revjeffvox @cowling175 @CTVNews I’m muted by Jeff, but for what it’s worth… If we are pro life then adopting unwanted children is reasonable. This is something the early first century church was known for…rescuing discarded babies.

@AdamJKrejci @Rach4Patriarchy I’m not saying Jesus is not God. So technically the one inside Mary was God. But to frame Mary as “The Mother of God” has lead to all sorts of bad teachings…that Mary had to be immaculate or a perpetual virgin…and see how people are still asking Mary to intercede for

@Rach4Patriarchy “Theotokos, the Holy Mother of God” - Mary is the mother of the body of Jesus. Yes Jesus is God but to say that Mary is the Mother of God who has no beginning is misleading. And the Bible never refers to her this way. “is the embodiment of the virtuous female.” - I can agree…

@ChristianJComis @PastorMark Curiously I never read any of these books but of course others explained this as Eve telling or leading Adam and you don’t see it until you read the text more carefully. Commentaries not necessary.

@Middle_Mtn1 @William_E_Wolfe That's a good passage. But it has them discipling the nations, not forcing them to come under a "Christian nationalist" agenda. The gospel goes out and people become part of the church. The church is not meant to become the state or run the state.

@BrotherBoaz @ChristianJComis @PastorMark Not only does the text say that Adam was with her, but the serpent uses plural pronouns, verbs and participles when speaking to the woman. So the serpent was including both of them. https://t.co/Lxk7vsqcza

@PastorMark Except the Bible says in 1 Tim 2 that Adam was not deceived though we know from Gen 3 that he was right beside her. Adam knew that the serpent’s words were a lie but did nothing about it. To whom much is given (ie. Adam saw God create and so had knowledge), much is required.

@Rach4Patriarchy It's commendable to serve your husband and family. But isn't your husband to serve you? Are not all believers to serve one another?

@ymmotrojam @MattSmethurst Not as a requirement. I cannot invite 200 to my home even if I wanted to. But if 20 came and a newcomer came in the midst and all were prophesying… Today’s churches don’t follow 1Cor 14. Clearly. But we should be.

@AstartesAp @Protestia That is taking Paul’s words out of context. It seems that no one is offended at what she is saying but her manner, right?

@PastorMark But being an independent thinking is good for everyone, right? You don’t mean your wife needs to be dependent on you to think or make decisions, right?

@pkh7276_pkh @MarkGrote @OperHealAmerica Man is not the authority over or the ruler over the wife, but the “source” or “origin” of the wife. Christ is also the source of His church which is a bride but made up of both males and females. Jesus is said to rule together with His bride not over her.

@pkh7276_pkh @MarkGrote @OperHealAmerica I understand that view, but Paul was correcting a problem in the husband wife relationships of those he writes to in the Ephesians letter. The command is “Be filled” and the fruit is described in participles, one of which is “be subject” to one another in th

@Shakespreacher @Protestia But the Bible does not restrict a qualified and gifted woman from preaching true doctrine or overseeing, teaching or pastoral care. The Bible does not support men from teaching or preaching error and false doctrine either. https://t.co/lwAJ5mgg1O

@DanielSmithAP2 @normal_catholic @AlexanderPayton No, I believe this is going back to Eve, and the “seed of the woman” as Paul was using the reference to Adam and Eve as a prototype of a situation with a deceived woman who is teaching and a husband who is not deceived but is silent, like Adam. She

@trapatonzi @UGOOTWEETS Well, you certainly have a right to believe what you want. But where is that in scripture?

@trapatonzi @UGOOTWEETS But what is the scripture saying? What about qualified and gifted women who speak true doctrine? Many men say things that are not right not as well.

@archivesincompl Paul is dealing with a specific deceived woman that both he and Timothy knew about but whom he didn’t want to name. Take another look… https://t.co/lwAJ5mgNRm

@trapatonzi @UGOOTWEETS Not defending actual rebellion but that’s not what 1 Tim 2:12 is referring to. https://t.co/lwAJ5mgNRm

@Richard09179317 Take another look. This passage is not restricting all women from teaching but there was a specific deceived woman Paul and Timothy would have known about. It fits all the evidence. https://t.co/lwAJ5mgNRm

@kevinmyoung 1 Corinthians 5:12–13 (NASB 2020): “For what business of mine is it to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the evil person from among yourselves.”

@pauldirks @KaeleyT You also refer to men being created first, that this is not like a grocery list (this first then that) but male PRIMACY. You referenced 1 Tim 2:13, but if you would review my post on this (below), you may understand that being created first meant understanding Adam’s need and… h

@pauldirks @KaeleyT I think that we were showing that leadership is best with both women and men together and that leadership qualities are not male only attributes. Aggression is not a leadership attribute. Logical thinking does not belong only to males. Boldness and courage are not male only.…

@KeiferStreet @PastorMark I almost agreed with your post except you said “How God chooses people is certainly a mystery.” That is of course what a good Calvinist believes but I believe that God chooses those who fear Him and gives these to Christ. God has chosen to provide salvation to all those w

@SonicReformati1 @1689caveman @ronhenzel 1. John 6:29 ⎯ "The work of God is...to believe..." The "of God" is in the genitive meaning that our faith is a result of His work in us. We believe because God is drawing us and teaching us. But it is we who believe and are credited for our faith. Note th

@revjeffvox @WokePreacherTV Yes, but this is just a distraction from a real problem. The splintering of the church based on minor differences shows a lack of true unity of the faith. We should be including those whom we may disagree with on secondary matters and focusing on primary matters of fait

@KaeleyT @pauldirks Yoinks. Thanks for this clip Kaeley! He says earlier that "Women not only can be, but must be students of Scripture. They must be catechized and discipled to be clear and disciplined thinkers, able to refute error and hold fast to the truth once delivered for all the saints.…

@TimHami97610674 @ronhenzel @triplett_mark Of course I could be wrong! But you’ll have to demonstrate it from the text and not by using later commentators as helpful as they can sometimes be. What do you mean by “a Judas apologist”? I have a teaching on Judas, is that what you are referring to? h

@Jon82Mac I appreciate your demeanour. I really try not to get offended even if people get heated, but I appreciate your sincere questions. I don’t see Paul meaning that the husband is in a hierarchical position over, or the authority over, or the ruler over his wife. Every marriage has… https://

@pauldirks @KaeleyT I think I may not have stated what you were meaning properly. Sorry if I misrepresented you. What I hear you saying is that both women and men submit directly to the Lord, but while husbands may take out the garbage or go get a jug of milk at the request of their wives and so…

@KaeleyT @pauldirks Agreed and just to be specific to get agreement from PaulD, he would say that a woman can teach women and children and can share the gospel or share prophecy, but she must remain under the judgment of the elders when doing so and she cannot hold a position of authority over men…

@GillesPaling @BogdanOancea77 I’m not asserting “theological liberalism” but merely that the Bible does not teach that qualified women who lead and those who preach and teach true doctrine are not going against scripture and are not in rebellion to the scriptures.

@pauldirks @KaeleyT Yes of course. But I was speaking in context of Ephesians 5. The apostle Paul is offering a corrective to specific relationship issues. https://t.co/Z58JiQI6JM

@pauldirks @KaeleyT Ok, but husbands are not an authority over their wives as in a parent over a child.

@ZEvans_7 @andrewhebert86 What if Paul is not addressing a culture-specific issue but rather an issue in the church at Ephesus? Paul is identifying a deceived woman teaching heresy whose husband is not deceived but silent—a situation reminiscent of Gen 3. Paul is not stopping anyone from teaching

@pauldirks @KaeleyT Wives submitting to their husbands is in the context of the body submitting one to another, leaders to congregants included. Submitting is not about authority structures but an attitude of setting aside your rights and preferences to serve and uplift others.

@SchuylerTaylor4 @pauldirks @KaeleyT I turn on notifications but don’t turn on beeps and sounds by changing that on my phone. So without turning on notifications I don’t think you can specify you want to see all posts and replies.

@danitreweek @jmmooreo That’s fair, though I was framing my comments more provocatively not to suggest untrue things or to accuse you of fakery but because I am honestly surprised by the wide variation in complementarian circles. Surely you recognize this.

@jmmooreo @danitreweek It’s unfortunate Dani saw what I said as relabeling and took offence to it on that account. I may have been provocative in how I framed my comments, but I’d sincerely be interested in her take on 1 Cor 14:34-35 and 1 Tim 2:11-15 given her comments in this thread.

@BogdanOancea77 @Hansronsdorf However, for one to prophesy but not be able to teach is very strange indeed. Prophesy is not always future telling but also explaining God’s word. In v36 the “you” is plural masculine. How would one know that Paul is suggesting that the basis for restricting women w

@William_E_Wolfe Intersectionality is a disease but egalitarianism is not. https://t.co/4tYGBalq90

@pauldirks @KaeleyT I may have actually attended one of these, but I will most certainly listen (again) to them! Thanks for sharing. To reply to the short form you provided. Even if each gender more prominently displays these specific characteristics, where do you get the idea that therefore,…

@pauldirks @KaeleyT @CharmyRosewolf Let me ‘splain. It’s that you think the wife is not also to emulate Christ in the way that Ephesians 5 describes of the husband. Perhaps the husband is to go first but the wife treads the same path as it is the same path Christ took. If you want, it may be like

@revjeffvox @BibleBashed BTW, I have no idea if you are muting me or not as you have not so much as liked any of my many comments back to you. I know you may be busy, but a “yo…point taken” once in a meteor shower to let me know there’s someone on the other end?

@KaeleyT @pauldirks @CharmyRosewolf I know Paul and although I disagree with him on a few key matters he does try really hard and he listens and is often nuanced in his views. It’s hard to change one’s perspective but I have hope for people like Paul.

@revjeffvox @BibleBashed I think it’s sometimes hard for the pastors who are there 2 hours (or more) ahead and turn out the lights and lock the doors on the way out. However, it’s often more than just margining your time. For some this is their problem but not for all. There are other factors. I

@pauldirks @KaeleyT The apostle Paul is speaking into situations where the woman is treated as necessary to bear children and keep house—more as a slave or property. He is calling these men to a higher standard. But he is not meaning that women also don’t follow that same standard.

@pauldirks @KaeleyT I love that you said “persuade me”! You are right that the wife is not the type of Christ in marriage itself but that’s as far as the type goes. This type neither implies nor requires limitations on the woman or role differences in leadership.

@pauldirks @CharmyRosewolf @KaeleyT The husband is a type of Christ but that doesn’t mean that the wife is not also to follow the example of Christ. There is only one Christ, not a female one for females to follow and a male one just for males to follow. Can the wife also not lay her life down for

@blitziod @muddymothball @godlywomanhood So if a man divorces his wife and marries another (not another man’s wife, but any other woman) he commits adultery. However, according to you, he doesn’t commit adultery as long as he marries another while still married to the first?? Jesus is going back t

@blitziod @muddymothball @godlywomanhood Moses permitted divorce but Jesus doesn’t. According to Steve one must be false? "Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives beca

@muddymothball @blitziod @godlywomanhood The ideal, and that which the church comes back to, is one man and one woman until the death of a spouse. As for the Ark, the animals were in pairs as they needed to mate (7 pairs of clean for sacrifices) but animals are not all monogamous nor do they follow

@cpa_dallas @William_E_Wolfe That doesn’t need fixing but if they got there despite the Bible, then that’s what needs fixing.

@William_E_Wolfe It is true that churches that don’t base their views on scripture will likely become more and more progressive. That is a legitimate concern. But it doesn’t follow that the egalitarian viewpoint requires ignoring or bypassing scripture.

@pauldirks @KaeleyT Yes, Christ sacrificed to save His bride but His bride consists of both men and women who are in turn called to lay down their lives for one another. Laying down one’s life is not a gendered requirement. And women sacrifice their lives for their families too.

@JohnMoo26668690 @WillEhrendreich @ElizabethOstli1 My conclusions align with scholars like Dr. Craig Keener, Dr. Nijay Gupta, Dr. Gordon Fee, etc. I know many complementarians who disagree with me but do not call me a false teacher. And all of us have somethings wrong no matter how faithful your c

@IssacharsNexus @JohnMoo26668690 Yes, I read my Bible very carefully. I believe it is fully inspired even down to the grammatical details. I suggested another possible reason our culture is having gender issues is because abuse of patriarchy. What God said in Gen 3:16 was not a curse but a prophe

@JohnMoo26668690 Yes, I am aware of 1 Tim 2:11-15 and 1 Cor 11:1-16. I have exegeted 1 Tim 2:11-15 in the attached thread. I have already taught through 1 Cor 11:1-16…I just haven’t had time to put it up on Twitter yet. Coming soon. But it is clear from 1 Cor 11:3,9,11-12 that Paul is… https://t

@JohnHar63885981 @DickSaban1 Paul starts out "Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task" not "males that aspire" but "whoever" which is the word τις You cannot take a statement about monogamy and then apply "must be male" as Paul says "Women likewise". https://t.co/Hh8pN2Zq7P

@JohnHar63885981 @DickSaban1 The problem is that you assume the office is limited to men. But just as it is not limited to married men with children, it is also not limited to men. If you say husband must mean it's a man, then it must also mean he has to be married. Also, "Women likewise" in-betw

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek I posted it because you keep referring to it so we might as well allow people to decide for themselves. Whether its beautiful or accurate exegesis, you will have to decide for yourself. I respond to his exegesis of 1 Cor 14:34-36 here. My concern isn’t for b

@PubliusJosephus @DickSaban1 There was a dividing wall between ethnic groups (Jew/Gentile), between those of the opposite sex (male/female) and those of different social status (slave/free), but all those walls came down in the church (Gal 3:26-29). Jesus' choice of apostles was before the start of

@PubliusJosephus @DickSaban1 Paul nowhere says that Phoebe is an exception, so we have to consider whether our understanding of what Paul was intending in 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 is correct. Further, it's not just Phoebe we have to consider, but even more so Paul himself who was neither married nor has

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek I’ve already gone through 1 Tim 3 but here’s a summary. https://t.co/PxqmZAHG7J

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek I don’t reject the plain meaning of scripture but interpret it in context. Thanks for your concern but we disagree on a secondary issue related to women and that’s ok. Your reference to 1 Tim 2:11-12 should be “a woman” not “women” if you follow scripture as

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek Just as the apostle Paul commended the Bereans for not just taking him at his word because he was an apostle but for searching the scriptures to see if what he said was consistent with God’s prior revelation, so also I cannot ask for anything different or sugge

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek “no grounding” “obsessed” “insistant woman’s advocate” “NOT a Christ and truth advocate” “wish to bend scripture” I guess since we are no longer talking about scripture but my character and inner motivations, there is not much to say.

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek Yes, we are all servants, but not all hold the office of deacon. Same word, whether it’s the office or just service depends on the context. Scripture nowhere contradicts itself. I completely agree. Paul writes scripture, so Paul doesn’t contradict himself.

@GlennDavies @outcatching @danitreweek Hi Glen. Paul wasn't a permanent pastor in a congregation. But he is most certainly an overseer. Overseers often oversee multiple congregations, helping with issues and assisting other pastors. It's the same role with increased responsibility. Why would th

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek Jesus says to eat His flesh and drink His blood and no one starts cannibalizing him. Jesus is a gate, a door, etc. I’m literally interpreting Paul’s idiom. It’s not hidden so you cannot see it, but your patriarchal glasses are so darkened you seem to see not

@BarberraBarker @choyMM @Freedom_1961_ @Conservative_BC @pauldirks Maybe someone can call them and ask why they haven’t updated based on the canceled order from July 14. Maybe they aren’t required to remove restrictions but just aren’t required to implement them. Yet they seem to think they are re

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek I’m agreeing with scripture but disagreeing with interpretation. I am not questioning God’s revelation but the men who claim to be the sole determiners of the meaning of God’s revelation. I love my Master.

@Robert_S_Morley @FearlessExpress @autocorrect2_0 Here’s a thread I created on 1 Tim 2:11-15 showing that this passage is dealing with a specific woman and her husband. The woman is deceived so Paul doesn’t name her but it’s a personal letter to Timothy so he would recognize who Paul is referring t

@nsraban @CovenantReform2 @smashbaals Yes, Nice find. But Num 30:13 isn’t a law silencing women in the assembly but confirming whether her vow which she speaks is in force and binding. Kind of different. Gen 3:16 is a prophecy to the woman about what the husband will do. Note that God doesn’t te

@AbJrogg @FeralChristineB @Conservative_BC But my brother’s wife’s second cousin twice removed is a doctor who did research and published papers on the subject. Oh well…I guess I’ll rip up his research and throw it in the garbage…

@godlywomanhood @Karpouzisporo But in context and the specific grammar, Paul is dealing with a specific situation in this personal letter to Timothy. https://t.co/lwAJ5mgNRm

@uncledando @ChristChurchTe1 @TomBuck Well, what happens to single women who don't have a husband? I think this passage refers to how the wife often sticks with an abusive, controlling husband even though it doesn't make sense. I could be wrong, but your interpretation doesn't seem right to me. Y

@outcatching @GlennDavies @danitreweek The English translations insert male pronouns likely because of the phrase "one wife husband" but the passage is not intending to say an elder must not be a woman or must not be single or must have children. Take a look at 1 Tim 2:15. The NASB reads "Women wi

@GlennDavies @outcatching @danitreweek “One wife husband” is written in the male form and the default would be to follow the male form but it doesn’t require “must be male” or “must not be female” just like elders are not required to be married and have children (Paul didn’t meet either of those req

@GlennDavies @outcatching @danitreweek Both forms are used so I summarized as “faithful to one’s spouse”. 1 Tim 3:2,12; Tit 1:6 is the husband form and 1 Tim 5:9 the wife form. The “he’s” are following the default but the male pronoun isn’t there. “Women likewise…” is between requirements for dea

@GlennDavies @NancyRPearcey So the difference is that patriarchalists (P) assert women are subservient to males and complementarians (C) assert women don’t lead in the family and church because it doesn’t follow God’s order? So P says women are created as lesser and C says they are the same but God

@outcatching @TomBuck 1 Corinthians 9:5 (NASB 2020): Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? This is the only reference we have on this but it suggests the others are married. 1 Cor 7:7-8 shows that Paul is…

@uncledando @ChristChurchTe1 @TomBuck No doubt you are correct there are disparities all over. But the woman is the very flesh and bone of the man and equal to him. This is not about envy or death. I have no idea how you get this characterization from the idea of equality. And I don’t mean a wom

@outcatching @TomBuck Firstly, all believers are priests already. You are right to think that leadership requires mature examples, but 1 Tim 3:2 says literally “one wife husband” which doesn’t mean married (Paul isn’t married) but faithful if married. Therefore if only male then this would need to

@uncledando @ChristChurchTe1 @TomBuck “A man will often know much less than his wife” - Interesting you admit this. “…this has nothing to do with his authority.” - Well, yes, if God gave the man authority over his wife then her knowledge would have nothing to do with the authority given. (But wher

@uncledando @ChristChurchTe1 @TomBuck I’m not disputing the apostles and the Law. You are making baseless allegations. Maybe you think that’s fun and I’m supposed to laugh, but you should be concerned about truth. Given that God is over all humanity, I surely don’t hate “hierarchy” in principle.

@uncledando @ChristChurchTe1 @TomBuck What, you can’t read Gen 3:16 either? Why don’t you answer my questions then? Why didn’t God tell Adam he should rule the woman? Why were his words to Eve future not present? I don’t advocate for women forcing their way—Jesus’ example is to serve. But this

@ChristChurchTe1 @uncledando @TomBuck No, but this statement is: 1. Post fall 2. Is God prophesying of what will happen 3. Is only spoken to the woman If God intended to tell the man it’s his job to rule over his wife, why didn’t He tell this to Adam?

@RobertZ60423932 @NiceNeanderthal @Red_Beard_1Sgt Plain English? But it’s Greek. Further, it cannot mean “must be married” (Paul himself wasn’t married), and this doesn’t say “must not be a woman”. Given no male pronouns are used in this passage aside from “amer” in this one phrase, more clarific

@BogdanOancea77 Oh, I looked at the Greek behind the YLT and they do have the genitive here. The NKJV also has it, so seems this is in the received text, but it's not in the majority text (ie. NASB). https://t.co/yKi02yx44c

@BogdanOancea77 Again, I don't believe Paul is constrained ONLY to answer questions. He is correcting their misunderstandings and statements. I don't see "your women" in v34, but "the women" (nominative, not genitive as I think would be used for "your women") with the later "they" (dative).

@BogdanOancea77 @Hansronsdorf The ἢ in v36 is followed by two rhetorical questions which are obviously not true. Verses 34-35 don't contain a question (Paul is often just commenting on things they wrote), but they say things that contradict other things Paul wrote "you can all prophecy" and "so tha

@uncledando @TomBuck Well, surely it's at least self aware. Perhaps you are suggesting the transgender community is trying to end any distinction in male/female. Granted. But also you didn't define what you meant by "husband/wife distinction" ⎯ I mean a father/husband is a man and a mother/wife…

@AJG797 @TomBuck I understand the importance of Paul's reference to this prototypical couple in this personal letter to Timothy as he writes of a situation which is known to both himself and Timothy. Men are deceived all the time. But why was Adam not deceived? It was because he was created…

@AJG797 @TomBuck Yes, God gave "man" dominion, the "male and female" man (aka mankind). True, most people are not gifted to properly handle authority, but it has nothing to do with one's gender or how much muscle they have...or how angry they can get to show you how much you should just obey😉

@The_Idol_Killer All false teaching has some impact and every church has some. No one is perfect. It’s important to also not isolate yourself thinking you’ve got everything perfect too. The key is to be open to hearing rebuttals and not be divisive on secondary doctrines. Calvinists and…

@uncledando @ChristChurchTe1 @TomBuck Why would you say that? I don’t “hate God’s created order” but don’t think He made the man to rule over the wife.

@William_E_Wolfe I think it is definitely a red flag. 🚩 But this is a secondary issue so it would depend on how divisive they are about it. Remember…Jesus’ example was to submit himself and serve not to be served.

@RenOfMen @ZacharyGarris You are right that it is dangerous to say that you don't like what the Bible says and then come up with your own way. But what if we've been reading these passages on women wrong in the first place and one can be faithful to scripture while also egalitarian?…

@TetzlaffJoshua @jhillky2 @NiceNeanderthal @Red_Beard_1Sgt What if Paul is quoting from the letter from the Corinthians (which he did frequently in 1 Corinthians (he indicates this in 1 Cor 7:1)? What if this is not a law of God but one that contradicts God’s law? Yes, it’s in the text, but there

@CFlow1992 I’m not denying that grace is central to the New Testament. But calling Calvinism ‘the doctrines of grace’ frames one specific theological system as the only faithful reading when in fact, it teaches that God withholds saving grace from most people. That’s not good news for all.…

@BogdanOancea77 @Hansronsdorf Hans may have a different viewpoint, but I would think there was some disagreement. There's a quote something like this: "You put three Jews in a room you get four opinions." At any rate, Paul refers to Judiazers that infiltrated the churches who were spying on their

@ChrisHohnholz Except 1 Tim 2:11 says "a woman" not "women" and verse 15 says "she (singular) will be saved through the (definite) childbearing (noun) if they (the wife and husband that Paul was referring to)". One would expect verse 14 to say "but Eve" but instead says "but the woman" which…

@rightresponsem @ChrisHohnholz Paul links the order of first creation with deception. Males can clearly be deceived too, so this isn't a comment about gender differences but relates to the specific creation order of Adam and Eve. Because Adam was created before God finished creating, he was witnes

@ronhenzel I get what you are saying...but sometimes a church is "lifeless" because the leaders stifle the church. Sometimes sermons are boring...because they really are boring.

@ronhenzel @YouHaveFought Does Deut 30:6 not apply to the people in the time of Moses who were commanded to love and obey God or else He would judge them? I believe it does. This is how we see those like Caleb of which scripture says "But as for My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spi

@Kdubtru You are just showing there’s a spectrum of male priority in leadership. If patriarchy seems too extreme you can be complementarian. If you don’t believe women speaking in church is shameful you can still believe that she is meant to not judge prophecy. But one wonders…how can…

@William_E_Wolfe But the church consists of all nationalities and draws no land borders and is not a kingdom of this world.

@YouHaveFought @ronhenzel But then they are treating Calvinism as the gospel and not believing it as meaning you are not a Christian. I shudder to think what Jesus will say to such pastors… 1 Cor 11:29 says “those who eat and drink WITHOUT DISCERNING THE BODY OF CHRIST eat and drink judgment on…

@YouHaveFought @ronhenzel Wow…he won’t baptize you until you believe in Calvinism? That doesn’t sound very healthy. I also spoke to pastors of two churches who wouldn’t allow me to be a leader because I’m not a Calvinist, but they certainly would allow me to be a member and be baptized.

@Guitardo7 @ronhenzel @mainakcounselor Even Hollywood folks know Judas wasn't there? Hollywood?? Ignoring all of what scripture says on the atonement? The atonement is universal but just as a gift certificate which is fully paid is useless unless you redeem it, so it is here also.

@Schweinzig @HwsEleutheroi I realize we disagree…but even most complementarians wont say that women are not able to lead. Most think it’s just what God requires (which I would contend with). There are bad male and female leaders. Good leadership does not belong to males.

@richjmatt26 @MikeWingerii Debating a position is different from insisting or forcing your rights. I can debate the truthfulness of the egalitarian position but I don’t believe we should force that equal right on our churches. It should come by convincing when the time is right. That’s my take.

@theophysicus @HwsEleutheroi I think the linkage is there when someone’s views are because of culture and not because of scripture. But for those who get there by examining scripture, it does not lead to progressivism. Anything you do to prioritize external things over scripture risks the slippery

@HwsEleutheroi Ugh. I agree with you and think this is very unwise and cultural syncretism. But this doesn’t mean egalitarian beliefs are wrong. Only that there are many falling prey to culture. It’s sad.

@ruvalum @CrazyEe33 @_nomadic_soul No one can prove how everything got here. There’s all kinds of possible explanations and observations but if you cannot repeat it in a lab you are just guessing. I happen to follow the Bible’s account of creation. It doesn’t follow traditional scientific assumpt

@gloriousolitude I’m egalitarian when it comes to the facts but I also think that biblically we are called to serve each other so while I feel called to help people see things my way :-) I don’t believe in forcing my views and I value working with people I disagree with.

@abolishalfabits I appreciate that you might think this, but this is most definitely not true. The idea that the only way to be saved is to first be regenerated and that God predestines some to believe sending even infants to eternal punishment is not a doctrine from the God of the Bible.

@OccamsBraiser @iheartJ37 @MikeWingerii No, that’s not quite right. It says women cannot speak as its shameful, base, lewd. That would include all women. But the other comment is that the married ones have husband they can ask questions of at home…the singles are out of luck.

@OccamsBraiser @iheartJ37 @MikeWingerii You may have helped me find a better explanation in the lexicons so not only am I not embarrassed, I’m elated! I am able to read the Bible in context so I can understand it but sometimes these lexical resources can be misleading or in this case, wrong. My po

@OccamsBraiser @iheartJ37 @MikeWingerii “You really ought to be embarrassed.” Is this really necessary? Thayer’s may have interpretively selected the wrong application here. This isn’t an “A or B” construction though some may think it is. I took it as A=the prior commands from Paul and B=vv34-35

@michaelshermer @MattWalshBlog I think that patriarchalism has to be at least part of the reason why society has gone off the deep end here. There’s a clear rejection of Biblical grounding for marriage and biological sex so was that caused by patriarchalism or was it just a contributing factor?

@OccamsBraiser @iheartJ37 @MikeWingerii That some quotes aren’t introduced means that it is possible. Therefore, we need to read in context to determine whether or not this is a quote. Paul says to eagerly desire to prophesy, not that everyone will. But if everyone had a word of knowledge or inst

@DilbeckPhd @TheGayPastorTom @RupZip @RickWarren But this statement causes unnecessary division. My understanding was that this was previously interpreted as only applying to the senior pastor role, but clearly they have changed it now.

@OccamsBraiser @iheartJ37 @MikeWingerii Ah, thanks. I learned a new term today. “A fortiori = with greater reason or more convincing force.” You are right—I’m not saying Paul is using “nomos” for rabbinical traditions but that he is quoting from the Corinthians who are. That snip from the Talmud

@Chad4328 As a church leader, I wanted to find another Biblically faithful church, so I looked for it amongst my reformed brethren. They wouldn’t allow me to lead in their church. These pastors wouldn’t claim it was a primary issue, but a level “1.5” issue. They said we can be brothers,…

@OccamsBraiser @iheartJ37 @MikeWingerii - yes, women speaking is gender specific. But why only women? Why is their speech shameful, base, filthy? - the only ones who have to learn at home are wives. But Paul says: "For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorte

@SMAMnstr39246 @FordhamOrthodox But why would Paul keep all the women silent when in the rest of the chapter he talks about everyone using their gifts for the benefit of all? The key to this passage is 1 Cor 7:1 "Now for the matters you wrote about..." https://t.co/0UJxaSEb7U

@Snuggernaut1 @chadlyrose @sovereignbrah You need to read this passage in context and make sense of the grammar. Paul's difficult grammar is because of what he tells Timothy in the first chapter. And the reference to Adam and Eve is not about hierarchy, but creation order and its relation to decep

@coramdeo1 @mbird12 @ivpacademic I doubt this passage has anything to do with Artemis. Well, at least Paul doesn't explain what the false teaching is. But he also doesn't tell Timothy to stop women from teaching true doctrine. The grammar is also quite specific and the context is extremely import

@TheBerean777 @EllaFlash @Maranatha7774 1 Tim 2:11-15 has been taken out of context. I don't blame people, but if you carefully consider the grammar, the purpose of this personal letter to Timothy and the reference to Genesis 1-2, it will make much more sense. https://t.co/LPisirHz38

@William_E_Wolfe The answer to patriarchalism and feminism which are on the right and left is egalitarianism. Egalitarians understand general differences between men and women but that these do not prevent qualified women from leadership. In fact, because of the differences, mixed male/female…

@BogdanOancea77 According to 1 Cor 14:34-35, a woman should not speak in the assembly. Paul permitted women prophesying, but some in the Corinthian church were trying to put a stop to that. “Have two or three prophets speak, and have the others pass judgment.” (1 Corinthians 14:29, NASB 2020)…

@BogdanOancea77 Where does the text say that it is disgraceful for the men? It is the men who are calling it disgraceful and shameful. It is the men who Paul is refuting. The point is not "why do these men need to be taught by women?" but "why do these men need to restrict half the body?"

@BogdanOancea77 @BarakWatson @justasbefuddled Paul is the one changing the grammar. I think your accusation is not against me but against the apostle Paul. I'm just trying to understand what he meant.

@BogdanOancea77 I know you don't think I understand. But I'm giving evidence that Paul quotes several times from the letter from the Corinthians, there are no "quote marks" in the earliest Greek manuscripts, and verses 34-35 are contradicting what Paul says earlier and even after. When you…

@bethallisonbarr Hi Beth. Just reading your book now but you might be interested in the take I pinned on my profile for 1 Tim 2:11-15 and this one on 1 Cor 14:34-35. Hoping to learn from each other. https://t.co/WHlrSQvbxX

@GlennDavies @danitreweek About the lack of positive feedback. Twitter is a funny place. I'm still trying to figure it out. I studied this over many years and presented it at my church, but this is the first time I posted it on Twitter. Yeah, I don't have a book to sell you if that matters (it s

9/23🧵The Jews were not allowed to burn God's word, but if it came down to a choice between giving scriptures into the hands of women or destroying God's word, they were told that the scriptures should rather be burned. https://t.co/UzYgWOcbbu

5/23🧵The law (gr:'nomos') is referenced 9 times in 1 Cor, each time referring to the Mosaic law or God's law. Where in God's law is a law that silences women in the church or synagogue? It is not found except in v34, but it cannot refer back to itself as justification! https://t.co/X02SUvCmqH

@harmonizedgrace Depends on what you mean by "fundamental" as the biology is fundamental in every cell (XY vs XX chromosomes), but men and women are equally able to lead as they are both rulers. There was no hierarchy or authority structures created inherent between male and female.

@residentreformr I agree with you. But I don't believe Calvinism is 'proper theology.' By that I simply mean I don't think it aligns with scripture.

@Jondaphemp I strongly disagree with Calvinism, but I generally avoid calling secondary differences/errors 'false teaching' as I think it's best to reserve this for true heresy. Heresy should only be things that when believed make you non-Christian.

@PastorMark Good point. But it makes me wonder...is it ok for women to do that??

@calandgrant @MikeWingerii 1) Does Paul say the woman is not also the glory of God? No. 2) No, rather since Eve was made from Adam's flesh and bone Adam's transgression applies to all humanity. Adam's sin was different than Eve's; God considered it treason: Hosea 6:7 (NASB95): "But like Adam t

@MikeWingerii Most of these are just guesses that don’t hold up. Egalitarians are fundamentally on the right track but many guess on these hard passages. For a view that is consistent with all the details in the text, see below. https://t.co/lwAJ5mgNRm

@MikeWingerii But part of being a man does not mean being the authority over your wife or being the only gender that leads.

@LauraRicha42528 @_nomadic_soul @LifeWithoutLack @DrFrankTurek I don't disagree with you, but we're talking about what Paul wrote and you seem to be avoiding admitting things I pointed out from Paul's text that are right in front of you. Once you admit that submit is not in verse 22, we can move fo

@ianfranklin @JeyButBased @MikeWingerii Not “having authority” but a very unique word so the English “exercising authority” doesn’t do it justice. There’s a lot going on here so it’s worth examining. Feel free to disagree and tell me why. 😊

@ianfranklin @MikeWingerii Parents have authority over their children, but not after they become adults. Why would a wife be viewed as an eternal child? Makes no sense.

@ianfranklin @MikeWingerii The only scripture related to authority over either husband and wife is the following: “The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the s

@ianfranklin @MikeWingerii People interpret it that way but it is not what Paul meant. I think what Paul meant is important…

@CherylSchatz Do you think that in all cases authority has to be explicitly given? We are not given the words God spoke to Eve but we can see from her testimony that God repeated the command to both of them because she says God said and uses plural pronouns in referring to herself and Adam.…

@nightwindsmusic @SweetbbJiyasus @revjeffvox @QuiverQuant I'm not sure what you are talking about. Churches usually help the poor in various ways. We have a compassionate program in my area where over the winter, we provide shelter and dinner and breakfast for those living on the street so they do

@MikeWingerii It certainly means we will disagree with "mainstream cultural norms," but it doesn't require that they cannot get some things right. Our reference has to be the Bible, not culture. This can be particularly difficult when the culture is "mainstream Christian circles" because…

@WillQuestions @MikeWingerii Yes, he does name her. But where does the Bible tell us that means he has authority over her since it isn’t written that God gave him authority over her? Kind of important.

@MikeWingerii Steve Ullmer makes a good point. I think we also need to remember that many cults claim to get their theology from the Bible too. We not only need to get it from the Bible, but rightly divided. https://t.co/PS8qhcvBdy

@rofbethany @MikeWingerii This is not a passage concerning salvation (like what Peter was referring to there), but nonetheless, it is a hard passage. I don’t think I know anyone—especially scholars, who don’t think that 1 Tim 2:15 is a hard passage.

@MikeWingerii Your bias may not be to want male power, but you may simply have a bias nonetheless which is preventing you from seeing a Biblically faithful egalitarian solution. It may in fact be hiding in amongst all the other chaff you place around it making it even harder for people to…

@masonmennenga Right, but I'm referring to Jesus in His ministry as recorded in the gospel accounts. One curious prisoner was John the Baptist who seemed to doubt that Jesus was the Messiah as John was rotting in prison while Jesus was preaching. Or maybe Jesus wasn't meaning physical prison.

@jenniferfox88 @William_E_Wolfe Yes, everyone says this is clear, but no one seems to be able to explain all the details of this passage. - Why is Paul using singular instead of plural if his instruction applies to all women? Or is it only a married woman who cannot teach or ‘authentein’ her husban

@MikeWingerii @evanwickham However, your job—should you choose to accept it⎯is not to see whether all egalitarian guesses can be harmonized or not, but to find the truth. This means that many proposed views don’t hold up to scrutiny but doesn’t mean that they all don’t or that complementarians are

@masonmennenga In other words, if a ‘sinner’ is laying on the side of the road bleeding, stop and help them. Do to others as you would have them do to you. But this doesn’t mean redefining the Bible to affirm something it calls sin. “…while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Rom…

@SacredOratory Well, I suppose there's nothing new under the sun (so says Solomon)... but what is most important is what the Bible means, so we always go back to that standard.

@biblepatriarchy @William_E_Wolfe Being strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus does not mean to rebuke strongly. In fact he was told NOT to rebuke older men harshly. 1 Timothy 5:1–2 (NIV): “Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brot

@William_E_Wolfe If soft means gentle, then I fear you are contradicting scripture. 2 Timothy 2:24–26 (NIV): “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Opponents must be GENTLY instructed, in the hope that God will grant them…

@JustinPetersMin This is not good from Rick Warren. If God speaks, you won’t be able to help but hear. This idea of two way conversation in prayer is unbiblical but it does not mean God cannot speak audibly. Everything is to be tested according to prior revelation in scripture.

@SBC_JumpingWorm @PastorSJCamp @Ken_FiveSolas @alexojeda78 @JustinPetersMin V12 also says deacons must be “one wife husband” so why do you think women can be deacons but not elders? My reading is the requirements for deacons and elders is the same except elders must also be able to teach.

@richardthenry @DennyBurk Why do you say women when the text says ‘a woman’? Paul knows how to use the plural, so why didn’t he? Why did he say ‘I‘ do not permit? Is this a command from God or guidance from Paul to Timothy? But it is not an imperative. For the history of women in the church, see

@BibleBashed 1Cor 11:14–15 (NASB2020) “Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For [her] hair is given to [her] as a covering.” How does NATURE teach you that long hair is a dishonor for a…

@GCRiffey @DennyBurk I see. So women can teach but men (and their older male children) cannot be in their presence when doing so? Women can counsel but God thinks men shouldn’t learn from women? Also, no one is said to be in authentein over anyone.

@TomBuck These are idioms for the same thing, marital faithfulness. However, what you have in 1 Timothy 5 is it is referring to widows. In 1 Tim 3, the male gender is used but v11 says “Women likewise…”

@DeanWar72224151 @akorb034 @scottspeig @TomBuck Well that may be but my goal is to be true to scripture.

@Thygar @AngelaGraceLOU @L_T_Pearson @JustinPetersMin No, not to leave out Aquila, but that particular comment was from something I read in the Lexham Bible Dictionary https://t.co/H5ZnAYJSKW

@akorb034 @DeanWar72224151 @scottspeig @TomBuck Actually, the verse says "one wife (genitive) husband (accusative)"⎯it is using the default male description, but no male pronouns are used. v1 says "if anyone" (gr. τις). It doesn't say "an elder must not be a woman" and in v11 it says "Women likewis

@Thygar @AngelaGraceLOU @L_T_Pearson @JustinPetersMin You are listing Aquila first, but scripture list Prisca first. Anyways, if they had to educate Apollos, wouldn't it make more sense to hypothesize the ones who educated him are more likely candidates? At least you cannot exclude this option.

@Bunnick @RupertP46422908 @JustinPetersMin I don't understand your objection. 1 Tim 3 on elders and deacons doesn't say "fathers"...

@L_T_Pearson @JustinPetersMin Also, see this resource which has the following statement: "Greek distinguishes between Number_Singular and Number_Plural, but not between Gender_Masculine and Gender_Feminine or Gender_Neuter or in the first person." https://t.co/l9iJk2uCkC

@L_T_Pearson @JustinPetersMin There were counterfeit letters from Paul so he frequently identified himself even writing at the end to show it was him (as his eyes were bad, so he wrote large letters). You are hypothesizing of course, which we have to do, but the teacher of Apollos would be more lik

@L_T_Pearson @JustinPetersMin But then why wasn’t he named? Let me ask you a question: if it turned out to be Prisca, would you accept the book of Hebrews or burn it?

@L_T_Pearson @RupertP46422908 @JustinPetersMin After giving the requirements for elders and deacons (with no male pronouns, but using the male gender), Paul says “women likewise” or in the same way or identically. He then says another point about deacons after this. Paul nowhere says “must not be

@scottspeig @rsbarrington @TomBuck But you made up the requirement “women can’t be elders” as this is nowhere found in the text just as “elders must be Jewish” is nowhere found in the text.

@RupertP46422908 @JustinPetersMin I don’t know about your kids, but I teach mine to read in context. Paul was quoting from the letter from the Corinthians 1Cor7:1. 1Cor14:36 refutes the quote by saying, “What? Came the word of God out from you [men]? Or came it unto you [men] only?”

@RupertP46422908 @JustinPetersMin “After 2000 years of study”⎯ you realize that the Jewish leaders had many years of study and they completely missed the Messiah? Paul didn’t have a wife or children. It doesn’t say “his” or “their” wives, but “women likewise…”

@BibleBashed Are there differences? Sure. But the point is not to exclude those that are different. The eye cannot say to the hand “I have no need of you.” The eyes think they can do the job alone, but God did not make His body to work that way.

@BibleBashed I’m an egalitarian and don’t reject the Biblical anthropology in Gen 1-2. Unless you are referring to roles only for men or gender hierarchy or authority of the man over the woman, but those are imported into the text.

@TomBuck If I said that I don’t agree with what the Bible says, that would be a lie. But to insinuate that I must disagree with the Bible if I disagree with you seems arrogant to me.

@jasonkeithallen I think Rick is referencing 1 Tim 2:11-12 here. You don’t think this means that women cannot teach or exercise authority over men? So the only thing that the SBC is standing for is that women cannot hold the position of pastor/elder/deacon, but they can still teach men?

@MikeWingerii @iheartJ37 But there are no male pronouns in this passage. There’s no “must not be a woman” or “must be a man.” “One woman man” has to be one way or the other and the default would be male. This requirement is repeated for deacons and in between we have “women likewise” including th

@MikeWingerii You cannot really say what complementarians believe because it is not monolithic. Some believe women cannot teach men, but they can teach women. I was discouraged from watching the women's bible study on YouTube at one local church (it made her uncomfortable).

@8trackmynd @William_E_Wolfe True, but it seems the denomination wants egal churches to either be removed or for them to remove themselves. It seems that's where things are going.

@MikeWingerii That phrasing isn’t great, I agree. But the question is still there… at what point must a woman stop teaching her male child because it becomes a sin to do so?

@chimpchompchamp @MikeWingerii @kitchenSvenk30 But these passages are highly debated for good reasons. There is no statement "an elder must not be a woman." The grammar and wording and back ref to Adam and Eve, etc. and context are not properly taken into account (re: 1 Tim 2:11-15). Trying to fo

@chimpchompchamp @MikeWingerii @kitchenSvenk30 Complementarian leaders are doing what they believe is right, so I don't think they should be forced to allow women if they think it's not Biblical, but they shouldn't treat others as though they are in "high handed rebellion" for doing so.

@dalepartridge What's a "male station"? If you think you have a "higher position of authority" then be like Jesus and do not consider this position something to be grasped onto, but lower yourself to become lesser like that of a servant (Phil 2:5-8). Copy the one you serve.

@PastorSJCamp @DaveSmith2019 @William_E_Wolfe Hi Steve. I am a long time fan of your music. But taking these passages out of context isn’t an argument. JWs do this all the time to which the right response is to read carefully in context.

@m_a_nilles @southernpresby @5pointsMckinley @AnnaGraceWood Adam and Eve were of the same flesh. How does that communicate hierarchy? Animals were made before Adam but don't rule over the man, so being created first doesn't mean you are the authority.

@Ashwin_Vengayil @MikeWingerii You are right in the sense that he doesn't have to repeat the work of others, but he should explain he is not ignoring these passages and that there are other Biblically faithful interpretations which do not contradict scripture. Comps feel that he ignores plain comma

@revjeffvox @5pointsMckinley Mike Winger responds to most of the egalitarian arguments which are poor. But the ones which are good he spends little time on and some he ignores. But he does not have an exegesis of the key passages which makes all the details fit. Those are the facts.

@Ashwin_Vengayil @MikeWingerii We can certainly agree with Warren’s points on these passages, but he has to exegete the hard passages for women in leadership, namely 1 Tim 2:11-15, 1 Cor 14:34-35, 1 Tim 3/Titus1 as those are the bedrock of complementarian doctrine.

@PaineInTheNeck @foxes_on_fire @AmReformer 1/ Let me get this straight. This passage clearly says “husband of one wife” but you say and elder doesn’t have to be married. It says clearly “one who manages his house” and “keeps his children under control” but you say an elder doesn’t have children.

@BawitdaBavinck I’m talking about the direction of Calvinism given its most prestigious proponents starting to die off. You may not agree, but how is that divisive? I happen to think that Calvinism is what has been the result of much division in the church.

@DirkWalstead @BawitdaBavinck No, and thanks for asking. It refers to Eph 5:21 in relation to mutual submission one to another. I prefer this over the term Egalitarian because the latter is often seen as asserting one’s rights, but I think Biblically, we are laying down our rights to serve each othe

@PartBaptist Well, it all can be traced back to Augustine, right? It’s an interpretive framework. Sure, it proposes to be a correct interpretation of scripture, but I’m challenging that.

@WWUTTcom Surely Elevation and other churches have problems, but the fact that you would use the issue of women pastors as a means to get them out is abhorrent. If they have abhorrent doctrine then why not deal with that? You sound like a boy upset his sister is playing with his toys.

@_nomadic_soul I consider myself a fundamentalist Christian but I believe in the equality of men and women. I also believe the scripture is inspired and inerrant and that there are Biblically sound explanations for these difficult passages on women. https://t.co/WBYfAC3RAz

@PaineInTheNeck @foxes_on_fire @AmReformer I agree that defying explicit instruction in scripture is a sin and is important. But these verses (1 Cor 14:34-35, 1 Tim 2:11-15) are not clear in silencing all women. You need to hear out others who interpret them differently but also hold to infallibil

@ball_dummy @zechariah1680 @thebereanmillen What explicit instruction says "An elder must not be a woman"? In 1 Tim 3 you have "one wife husband" but this is simply monogamous. Paul wasn't married and surely he met his own requirements. Then later down it says "likewise women..."

@DanielFarey @MattSwiftyPerry 2/ In this case, there was an ignorant woman teaching 'a woman' whose husband, just like Adam, knew better but was silent. The example of Adam and Eve illustrates how because of Adam's first creation, he had experience with God that prevented him from being deceived.

@DanielFarey @MattSwiftyPerry 1/ And you shouldn't rely on passages that you don't fully understand. In this personal letter from Paul to Timothy, he admonishes him to remain to stop false teachers (not women). Some are deceived and ignorant, but those who are not are marked.

@foxes_on_fire @AmReformer Right. But the point is that the gender of the word doesn’t tell us that there’s a gender restriction. Also, Paul wasn’t married so the one appointing elders doesn’t meet the standard? It’s literally “one woman man” implying monogamous if married.

@TomBuck But if you are going to make this about scripture, then at least prevent 'a woman' who's teaching false doctrine and not women in general. Isn't it about the Word? Or is the authority in the gender? I thought SBC was about the Word...

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @brmorris A typical waitress will be saved (from her sins) if all waitresses do something? You can talk this way, but this isn't how the Bible speaks of sin and salvation.

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @brmorris There are translations that say "women will be saved" but they don't reflect the Greek grammar. They do this because it doesn't make sense that the grammar is switching and they assumed it was a mistake.

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @brmorris But it doesn’t work because Paul uses both the singular and plural in the same sentence. She will be saved if they. So one generic woman will be saved if all women do something??

@William_E_Wolfe @RickWarren But this document isn’t the Bible!!!

@ymmotrojam @brmorris @CherylSchatz But if the apex of creation is last one created, that would mean the woman is the apex. I think we have to stick with what Paul relates. The creation order has something to do with deception. And we all know both men and women can be deceived today.

@ymmotrojam @brmorris @CherylSchatz If the latter then why follow this up with “do not forbid”? Since Paul says he is responding to their letter you need to argue why this is not a response to their letter. Judaism has this restriction in the Talmud but the Bible doesn’t. Judaizers have infiltrat

@anahnemoo Funny. But that’s not the question. It was “what are the requirements for a pastor”

@ymmotrojam @brmorris @CherylSchatz There’s no quotation marks so all quotes are inferred but Paul says in 1 Cor 7:1 “Now about the matters you wrote” so we know he is addressing things from their letter. I gave the illustration of an intersection with no lights or lines or stop signs. Context wil

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @brmorris 2/ But since He gave it up it had to be given back to Him later. And the Father listens to the Son’s will and the Son listens to the father’s will. There is clear mutual submission.

@Mcnerd8 @William_E_Wolfe @sbcamendment @9Marks The church is Jesus’ DNA. We should not be dividing it up into fragments based on secondary matters saying “we can be brothers but you can’t be part of my church.” Note: I was welcome to be a member but to not be allowed to ever lead ever was a show

@Mcnerd8 @William_E_Wolfe @sbcamendment @9Marks We are not to unnecessarily divide the body. It doesn’t mean that we cannot believe different things. For example, as an egal, I can submit to comp leadership but I know 3 churches where I asked the pastor if as an egal I can serve in leadership and

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @brmorris Padgett says “(type I) comes from the realm of political and military struggle. This type of submission is obedience to an external authority, which can be voluntary but often is not.”

@brmorris @CherylSchatz @ymmotrojam I suppose the corresponding term to feminism would be chauvinism. The tendency is to prioritize or force your way, but the Biblical way is mutual submission. Maybe we should coin the term “Mutual Submission” instead of egalitarian.

@lisanicolegaron @OliveGarden5505 @RickWarren This is difficult to do over twitter. I can, but I don’t have the paid account. Unless you want to ask a specific question? Here is a series I taught at my church. In session #2 on 1 Tim, I also discuss Gen 1-3. https://t.co/WBYfAC3RAz

@ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz @brmorris This verse is there because currently the Son has ALL authority and ALL power, but at the point of 1 Cor 15:28, the Father and Son will again share. There is mutual subjection, just as in Ephesians 5:21 we are all to be mutually subjected to one another.

@Christocentrism @AntiochBaptist_ I don’t think he’d be doing this if they didn’t kick him out. He’s not trying to make other complementarian SBC churches ordain women but to allow freedom.

@CherylSchatz @brmorris It’s not really a mystery. It started at the fall when the man blames the woman and God and God prophecies that he will rule over the woman. A consequence of the fall, but not to be found in the body of Christ, His church!

@ymmotrojam @brmorris @CherylSchatz Do you see how Paul says “I praise you…for holding to the traditions just as I passed them onto you” (vs2) and then “BUT I want you to realize…” (vs3) ⎯ they don’t understand WHY and its causing problems.

@brmorris @ymmotrojam @CherylSchatz Grudem says some very concerning things about an eternal subordination between the Son and the Father. I haven’t read all his stuff, but I see source fitting well in Eph 5 also.

@ymmotrojam @brmorris @CherylSchatz Since marriage is always based on its its inauguration in Genesis, we always go back to that. This is not to say that the wife literally comes from her husband today (that’s what vs 11-12 are pointing out). We are mutually dependent. But the first created had t

@ymmotrojam @brmorris @CherylSchatz Man is the glory of God, but woman is also the glory of her husband (she has two glories). She therefore has to consider both Christ and her husband.

@ymmotrojam @brmorris @CherylSchatz Christ->man->woman, God->Christ => the first man was created by the God-man from dirt, and the woman came from that first man. When Jesus incarnated His source was from the Father. A man has one source, but a wife has two: her husband and Christ.

@TheSMEAC @btgolz @RickWarren Lol. Sometimes Siri just does weird things. Anyways, I have many quibbles and things to say about Rick Warren over the years—but the issue at hand here is women being ordained as pastors or preaching.

@michaelfrost6 Not defending RW but these passages are notoriously difficult and these are very good sound Biblical reasons for understanding them as not restricting all women. But avoiding these scriptures or ignoring them is not good.

@Nkajunwa @HwsEleutheroi (1) He is an apostle who appoints elders. And he most definitely served in an overseer capacity though over multiple churches. So you are saying that one who appoints elders and oversees churches has no restrictions, but an elder must be married?

@LucaBeth_Writer @RickWarren Learn to work with people that disagree with you on secondary matters which are not matters of sin. The SBC shouldn’t have baked male only pastors into the agreement but we’ve also learned a lot along the way so they should be allowed to make mistakes too.

@LucaBeth_Writer @RickWarren I have lots of things I could quibble with Warren regarding his methods and his exegesis. However, I believe his conclusions are right on this issue though I’m not sure he has done the work to thoroughly study the hard passages. But baptists divide far too quickly…

@GrandpaJoeSux Since his teaching contradicts the Bible, he would be called a false prophet. Nothing against the man himself, but his teachings are the issue.

@Latterdaytruth He was a false prophet. I’m sure you won’t accept it but his teachings contradict the Bible in massive ways.

@AbrahamMbaja @dalepartridge Paul instructs Timothy to remain in Ephesus to stop certain people from teaching false doctrine, not to stop anyone from teaching truth to anyone else. A certain deceived wife who was teaching heresy (whose husband was not deceived but silent like Adam) needed to be ins

@Mormonger You may not be in a state of uncertainty but that does not mean you are not deceived. God is one and there is only one God is consistently stated in scripture. https://t.co/aAxjc4YfSV

@smashbaals As I explored MacArthur’s teachings on Calvinism and women in leadership I was shocked at how off he was. His views about authority of leaders is also problematic. But his defence of the gospel—especially with cults—was stellar.

@mr_shiplet Well, it’s going fine as they appear to be more open to those who differ on these things than other churches I attempted to become part of. My timing is simply due to the reminder of how significantly these 3 contributed to the modern Calvinist resurgence. I think if you…

@mr_shiplet @BiblesForFree It may survive…but I think it will cool down awaiting the next resurgence.

@MiddleBrownie @TheGayPastorTom @RupZip @RickWarren Maybe it’s the case that if people go egalitarian despite scripture but not if they do it to be faithful to scripture. Yes, to be faithful.

@Nkajunwa @HwsEleutheroi I’m not conflating the advise for younger widows with 1 Tim 3 but showing that the requirements for elders are similar to widows in that they had to be monogamous and they need to show that they can ‘manage their housholds’ (1Ti5:14 means ‘the master/head of one’s house’)

@MarvinMediocre @cpa_dallas @LauralovsJesus @HwsEleutheroi Yes literally written, but it means monogamous (if married) as Paul wasn’t married himself. If an elder must not be female then that needs to be stated explicitly and it isn’t.

@cpa_dallas @MarvinMediocre @LauralovsJesus @HwsEleutheroi Yes, the Greek is literally “one woman (genitive) man (accusative),” that is that the woman belongs to the man. But this does not 1/ require that an elder must be married as Paul wasn’t married and 2/ not that an elder must be a man as masc

@cpa_dallas @MarvinMediocre @LauralovsJesus @HwsEleutheroi But Paul isn’t himself “the husband of one wife.” Can someone who doesn’t meet the requirement himself be in a higher position to appoint those under him who do meet it?

@MarvinMediocre @LauralovsJesus @cpa_dallas @HwsEleutheroi I’m sorry, I think I missed this clear point. I’m not interested in what I like or don’t like but what the Bible says and truth. Please help me see what you are seeing. Where does Paul say an elder must be male?

@Nkajunwa @HwsEleutheroi While 1 Tim 5:9 is referring to widows, the same things are said, in fact the “one man wife” is translated as “faithful to her husband” but could have been “monogamous.” And rule her household uses a stronger term than in 1 Tim 3 about overseers.

@LauralovsJesus @cpa_dallas @HwsEleutheroi I’ve read it and studied it carefully. I used to believe as you. The passage in context is not saying women cannot teach men, but ‘a’ woman cannot teach or “take authority” (means murderer, absolute master). Paul used his grammar very specifically which

@LauralovsJesus @cpa_dallas @HwsEleutheroi My wife felt relieved that she didn’t have the responsibility to lead in the home, but I showed her from scripture that we both have that responsibility. She was abdicating her God given responsibility. She just needed to see from scripture that it wasn’t

@LauralovsJesus @cpa_dallas @HwsEleutheroi The reason is given as 1/ Adam was formed first and 2/ Adam was not deceived but Eve was (though he was beside her). So the order and deception are related. This couple in Ephesus had a similar situation, just like Adam and Eve, the wife was deceived but

@davbach823 @cpcwesterville @RickWarren Not suggesting to ignore it! But this word has a negative connotation not positive. You said “men” but Paul said “a man.” Does Paul not know how to use the plural? Of course he does! But he doesn’t here. Why not?

@cpcwesterville @RickWarren But if your statement of faith concerning requirements for elders isn’t consistent with the text, you’ll need to revise it. Why does Paul use “tis” in 1 Tim 3 as a generic “someone” or “anyone”? Why doesn’t he just say “An overseer cannot be a woman”???

@ryanfred @RickWarren You are right if scripture is purposely being ignored. I cannot say whether or not Warren is doing this, but generally speaking if you affirm women pastors because of scripture and not in spite of scripture, then there’s no reason to believe what you said is inevitable.

@OliveGarden5505 @RickWarren Warren is not giving exegesis on the difficult passages. I wish he was better at that. But that doesn’t mean he’s wrong. How is he mangling God’s inerrant word exactly? Is it possible…I mean even if only 1% chance that you might be wrong in your interpretation?

@Vicar0fChrist @gdianenelson @RickWarren One reason why there needs to be both female and male pastors is that women who need counselling don’t put male pastors into compromising situations. But what you seem to be saying is that males are restricted from learning truth from females, from half of t

@HwsEleutheroi Not defending Warren’s exegesis, but how is it that authentein is not used to state how men can positively have authority? Why would Paul choose this unique word? And did you not see “Women LIKEWISE…” in 1 Tim 3:11? This word means “in like manner” or “similarly.”

@revjeffvox @Protestia Hmm. It would appear that some may just hold onto a different form of patriarchy depending on how they interpret certain verses in the New Testament. But what if patriarchy was essentially abolished when Jesus instituted His church and made us all sons (Gal 3:26)?

@MikeWingerii I take a different stand based on the Biblical evidence. A good overview of the mutual subjection calling (egalitarian but not asserting one’s rights) is well presented by Darrell Johnson as he tackles Ephesians 5: https://t.co/kEedcNki6d

@HwsEleutheroi If they allow women preachers DESPITE scripture, then you are likely right because they are ignoring scripture which is obviously the root of the problem. But if it is BECAUSE of scripture, then why would this portend a church going progressive?

@J17apologetics Surely it is evident to all that there is a “from” and a “to” in Paul’s letter but these two share a common God and common benefits of salvation.  I’m not sure how you can miss this…

@RTB_HRoss @onceblindorg @aigkenham Sucks when the Bible contradicts your book, but better to make ‘A Matter of Days, 3rd Ed’ than to continue to promote false ideas.

@RTB_HRoss @onceblindorg @aigkenham You are misreading the scripture and conflating contexts! John 5:17: “...My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” If it is still God’s rest day, why is He ‘working until now?’ Note Exod 31:15 is not rest from creation but rest from ANY work.

@RTB_HRoss @chuckgaff @bvmcode This loose reading of scripture not only is dangerous, but leads people to think God’s Word wasn’t true especially for the 700 years after the flood (actually its 820 including the ~120 years before the flood when God stated this limit). That’s a long time before the

@RTB_HRoss @chuckgaff @bvmcode God clearly was referring to the limit on mankind in the flood because of sin. It wasn’t because the majority of sin comes from the elderly, but was a deadline to the flood. In the future we might not live past 100...what then?

@OrthodoxWario It’s about the theology. I met John MacArthur and he seemed like a wonderful person. But I have issues with the teaching.

@RickWarren "Hiddenness is the place of purification..." But the Bible says, 'If we CONFESS our sins, He is faithful...to cleanse us'

@robotcop1984 @sola_chad Trolling? Seriously? Why are you dismissing my arguments in this way? Maybe you are trolling, but that’s not what I’m doing. Paul continues describing deacons in the same way as elders using grammatically masculine forms as Greek often does generically, then pausing to high

@robotcop1984 @sola_chad “Women likewise…” “Likewise” (ὡσαύτως) connects these women to the previous category (i.e., overseers or deacons), just as 1Ti 3:8 uses the same word to transition to deacons. Paul highlights some special things for women but all the prior requirements also would apply.

@robotcop1984 @sola_chad I already explained to you that the descriptions in 1Ti 3:1-7 use the male form of the words, but no actual explicit pronouns except ‘tis’ in 3:1 which means anyone/someone. This is how you would word it in Koine Greek if you intended to mean either a man or a woman.

@seizethatlife I sure hope not but I just find him down an endless rabbit hole lately admittedly by his own choice thinking he is going to single handedly save the church…

@robotcop1984 @sola_chad An elder (pastor) doesn’t need to be married, but if so, then must be monogamous. If not, must advocate for monogamy. An elder doesn’t have to have children, but if so, the child/children should be obedient and believers. This doesn’t mean an adult child has to be these thi

@carol66944 Well, as in the case of 1Tim 2:12, not permitting the person teaching heresy to keep teaching but to listen to instruction. This is not about duct tape or imprisonment. In the end, the church may reject Timothy and adhere to these false teachers.

@robotcop1984 @sola_chad Paul says that a married person’s interests are divided, so why would he then require a person to be married to be an elder? Especially given he wasn’t married? “But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he m

@robotcop1984 @sola_chad You are hypothesizing. Nowhere does he identify as a widower. That would be an important detail. It would also be important to know if he was married but his wife left him. But Paul advocates for everyone (if possible) to be single like him. How does that work if one must b

@BradPaints @megbasham No, but you probably shouldn't be teaching the Bible to anyone anytime soon given this poor handling of the text. https://t.co/XIjnmMzrMD

@JamesEwen0407 @sola_chad Sure there are. I’ll link a text which lists 10 of them. BTW, the church is simply a gathering of believers. If 10 people gather and none are appointed leaders, you still have church. It is healthier to have people appointed for the task of teaching and correction, but tha

@robotcop1984 @sola_chad I am not sure how much you know Greek, but while the Greek in 1Ti 3:1-7 uses masculine forms, this is often how one writes in Koine when speaking generically. There are no male pronouns in the text. Check for yourself. As I stated in my linked post, “husband of one wife” is

Here’s someone else mourning the shift in Mike Winger’s ministry. And yes, Mike does have the alert pinned to his profile. But these people want something to eat. https://t.co/b2uB7Ziz97

@BlacktopPreachr What scripture are you referring to? Paul did tell the Ephesian elders to be alert for wolves, but he did not tell them to remove them—he warned them and exhorted them to guard the flock. https://t.co/UnsKBommwi

@BronWen727104 So you have a pastor of kitchen duty? A pastor who manages distribution to widows?

@BronWen727104 Yes, I agree with that. But I don’t see a paid/unpaid distinction being made in the NT. The appointment as deacon wasn’t that they necessarily be paid but in what they were appointed to dedicate their time to.

@slyoung687 Yes, but Paul nor Jesus tells or shows by their actions that wolf tares should be pulled up by the root now.

@slyoung687 Precisely. I’m not asking him to debate, but to discuss. And I’m asking him to substantiate his divisive calls to tell egalitarian teachers to repent and those who attend egalitarian churches to loudly leave and take as many others with them as they can. That’s not secondary acts

@JEM_Books @sola_chad @ElleRulavage Where in scripture does it say Timothy was the pastor, or even an elder or an overseer? We rightly assume so, but it’s not explicit. If it is, please show me where.

@slyoung687 The problem is that by actually *removing* them he is likely going to harm the sheep. He claims he isn’t pulling weeds (to avoid going against what Jesus said) but then says he removes wolves. In the meantime he has stopped teaching through Hebrews. When will he be done? 🤔

@BronWen727104 Sure, I get that. But I guess then that this strays from what the early church was doing by separating deacons and elders.

@slyoung687 It’s really unfortunate as I think we could have has a good discussion on this. But he has hardened himself on women in ministry and strangely sees me harming my marriage by treating my wife as an equal authority. 🤯 So I’m causing harm by teaching egalitarianism.

@BronWen727104 So someone serving by leading the kitchen crew or managing the distribution to the widows is a pastoring function? I don’t think we are looking at English wording but what terms and contexts the biblical authors used this word for. Technically we are also ALL diakonos.

@BronWen727104 But weren't deacons specifically chosen to so that the elders could focus on teaching, doctrine, correcting issues, etc., and the deacons take on the other service tasks? Doesn't mean that they couldn't be pastoring or couldn't teach, just that their assignment was other matters.

@VirgilWalkerOMA If she is Eve, there is no sense in which Eve will be saved by the actions of those in the present. But we have a husband and wife in this passage. If she is the deceived wife and the they is her and her husband, then this makes sense. Only she needs salvation b/c he wasn't...

@VirgilWalkerOMA The text in 2:14 sure does make 'the woman' sound like Eve. I think that's precisely Paul's intent. He's using Eve (and Adam) as prototypes of a specific couple in Ephesus. How? Adam wasn't deceived but Eve was. This wife in Ephesus was teaching heresy, but was deceived. How? /8

@VirgilWalkerOMA as a means to point to which of them is godly and should be listened to. Paul says that this is not an appropriate response to false teaching, but rather godliness should be demonstrated by good works. Going from all people, to all men, to all women, Paul now uses the singular.

@VirgilWalkerOMA What I appreciate is that you acknowledge that our feelings should never override scripture, and so if you used to believe something you 'felt' was right but now believe scripture contradicts what you felt, then I commend you for changing direction. The issue is about truth.👇

@LDS_Liberty That’s a great list. The problem isn’t that God speaks beyond the last page of the Bible but the claim that God speaks to contradict his prior revelation. That’s cannot happen.

@DLepanto9801 @PatrickSemani @PrayTheRosary12 Well, yeah, that is RCC teaching. But it’s not Biblical teaching. Baptism also doesn’t leave a mark!!

@Classicist9999 @nosoup4knowles And if you recall, Paul was responding to things the Corinthians wrote in their letter, a letter we don't have access to. He quotes from it, but there are no quotes in the original manuscripts. To the men who think that women should be silenced when the church gather

@AF_Tugboater @MegHunterKilmer Yes, 1Ti 2:12, Paul identifying a specific deceived wife who needs to stop teaching heresy. But Paul is not stopping anyone from sharing their opinion on social media. https://t.co/XIjnmMyTX5

@jayTheory1987 @rankheresy Ok, but if you are going to quote the Bible, you should read it more carefully. First, about 1Ti 2:12... https://t.co/XIjnmMyTX5

@JanJansen1973 @haymes_joshua That example merely shows that it is not a restriction. If only a few women end up being elders, that’s not a problem. But if we weren’t claiming they were sinning by serving as elders, there would likely be more.

@TommyMommy36056 @howard_kin71514 @Truth_matters20 “Everyone serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” (Jn 2:10) The Greek phrase translated “drunk freely” is μεθυσθῶσιν (methysthōsin), which is a f

@carol66944 @KennethOrtiz @BronWen727104 @Paula_333 If everyone is expected to learn, then that means questions may be asked. I don’t know about you, but I don’t learn unless I ask questions. Asking questions is not the same as prophecy, etc., but the principle of mutual edification means allowing

@carol66944 @KennethOrtiz @BronWen727104 @Paula_333 But the passage says they should ask their husbands at home, which is markedly different from “subject themselves to IF/THEN cues for silence in verses 26-32”.

@carol66944 @KennethOrtiz @BronWen727104 @Paula_333 So in all the churches the women are not permitted to speak? All churches, but not all women can speak?

@carol66944 @KennethOrtiz @BronWen727104 @Paula_333 Since the purpose of the gathering is for mutual edification, why silence questions, and second why silence only questions from married women? Paul also says “For you can all speak” but just 1 at a time. The Corinthians were trying to resolve the

@carol66944 @KennethOrtiz @BronWen727104 @Paula_333 “…what I am writing is the Lord’s command” —but this is not v34-35. If it was, it would be in the law (Gen—Deut) and there is no law that silences women in the assembly. But it is part of the oral tradition of the Judiazers who it seems were disrup

@SDustin44 @Truth_matters20 I actually completely agree with this. I was just surprised as I don’t usually hear people teach this. They usually say that the Spirit didn’t indwell people but only rested upon them and that it wasn’t permanent.

@Truth_matters20 @David_wthebeard Yes, Mt 11:27 teaches that no one can know the Father unless the Son reveals Him. But that doesn’t mean the Son only reveals the Father to a pre-selected group with no regard to our response. Scripture is clear that: - Jesus revealed the Father openly through His w

@RobertMacD0nald @purebredslappy That has nothing to do with the church though. I’m not saying that the police have no authority to arrest me if I disobey the law. But my pastor has no authority to tell me what to do or not to do, only scripture has that authority. So his authority requires alignmen

@OSRDwarf2 @DrCalumMiller Eve allowed the serpent to whisper? Wasn't it Adam who was told to guard the garden? He was right there beside her the whole time. So then it was Adam who allowed the serpent to speak. But don't forget that Paul shows even men can be deceived: “But I am afraid that, as the

@Svigel Priests require a temple but there is no temple. Actually, there’s temple is now the body of each believer. So then they are their own priest. What unique authority do elders have? Others who are not elders can teach, so that’s not it. Elders can’t make someone do something…

@iroquoisplskn87 Oh, God established rulers of countries and governments and police. But in His church, there’s no pope and leaders are simply those with character, experience and wisdom and abilities that the church needs. It’s not about authority or control in the least.

@ReformedArsenal But I’m leading together with my wife. We make decisions by consensus. I’m the head but that has nothing to do with authority or leading.

@WayneShaff60221 I think most people see it as a response to patriarchy. Did it go too far? Certainly. But this is culture we’re referring to not Christianity. The Christian ideal is mutual submission where we each lay down our rights to serve each other.

@iroquoisplskn87 That’s a false dichotomy. Egalitarianism is not the absence of order but the presence of mutual submission (Eph 5:21), shared responsibility, and co-laboring without rank-based domination. Anarchy rejects all structure; egalitarianism embraces Christlike service and Spirit-led…

@carol66944 @OrinRomine Eve was deceived, but Adam transgressed eyes wide open. Paul affirms both truths. But in 1Ti 2:14–15, he focuses on the woman and offers a path to restoration—not to Adam, not to mankind, not to Gentiles. Just let Paul say what he actually says.

@carol66944 @OrinRomine I’m sorry to say this, but your handling of this passage is a chaotic mix of eisegesis, grammatical confusion, and theological misdirection—jumping between metaphors (Adam, Gentiles, Christ) without any textual anchor. None of this flows from the Greek or Paul’s argument in 1

@carol66944 @OrinRomine Paul says the woman was deceived, not the man (1Ti 2:14). She believed false teaching and needed correction and salvation (v15). He was not deceived. So Paul doesn’t say they are both in need of salvation, but that her salvation depends on their ongoing faith.

@defense_of_fam @Ch_JesusChrist Of course that’s what LDS prophets teach. But this is nowhere found in the Bible. And Jesus is clear that there is no marriage in heaven (which is why I suppose LDS prophets have introduced this teaching). Not like Jesus meant, “but exaltation is ALL ABOUT ETERNAL MA

@EricMFriel @Truth_matters20 That would require everyone interpret the scripture properly but the scripture itself shows that won’t happen. https://t.co/h3iyZMlpmL

@Paula_333 @BronWen727104 @WayneShaff60221 But why is she wasting her time on you? Are all teachers and theologians are wolves?

@carol66944 @OrinRomine But 1Ti 2:15 says “She will be saved…”. You can’t change ‘she…saved’ to ‘he…preserved,’ from ‘the woman’ to ‘Adam.’ First, Adam cannot be modified at the time of writing as he is dead. Same with Eve. Second, this doesn’t address the context of why Paul was writing to Timothy.

@Paula_333 @WayneShaff60221 @BronWen727104 Precisely. Noteworthy, outstanding amongst, prominent among, notorious of, etc. She wasn’t one of the 12, but she was an apostle.

@SonofCisco @5pur5y @swainslake @DBryanRhodes @TexasPreacher The OP invites speculation because it isn’t just addressing a purist focus on the ministry but on the idea that no woman should be allowed to prepare for serving in that way. And one wonders why women tend to be more off base? Maybe we sho

@jhayes1189 Every tongue will confess either due to the force of being confronted by the eternal judge of the universe or their willing submission before that time. All are made alive, yes, but the second resurrection is for the unrighteous dead who are raised for eternal judgment.

@OldPhilos @smashbaals Again, Paul’s stated purpose is not to stop anyone from teaching the truth but to deal with the false teaching and ensure qualified elders are in place and incorrect actions they were taking to deal with the false doctrine were also corrected, amongst some other things.

@OrinRomine No, the context is that Paul wrote to Timothy to remind him to “remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines…” (1Ti 1:3). Paul reiterates, “I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; but in case I am…

@Paula_333 @BronWen727104 That’s what a deacon is… a supportive role. They organize teams, host, weight on tables, distribute donations, etc. Not a single person in the NT aside from Christ is named as a pastor. Only two are named as elder, Peter and John, and by self-designation. A spiritual lead

@SingnRing Absolutely! The misguided emphasis on authority seems to be core to the problem. There seems to be a desire to emphasize and not diminish Christ’s authority over His church but Jesus doesn’t present Himself that way, always elevating the church, seating us on His throne, etc.

Some claim regeneration didn’t exist—or wasn’t permanent—before the church. Yet Dt 30:6, Jer 31, and Saul’s changed heart show otherwise. What changed in the NT wasn’t the possibility of inner transformation, but the scope of God’s out poured Spirit on all flesh. /13

@Paula_333 @BronWen727104 But Paul doesn’t say it was in her nature but relates to the time sequence of creation. Adam was created, placed in the garden, trees were created before his very eyes with full fruit, then animals from the dust (likely the females) and then Eve. Eve saw none of this.

@josheber12 He stopped a woman from teaching false doctrine, but where does he stop anyone from teaching the truth? He can’t as Jesus already by His authority gave all the authority to teach all nations everything he commanded and taught (Mt 28:18-20).

@Conservati90559 But preaching Christ is what the entire scriptures are about. Further, Mt 28:18-20 commands all disciples to teach everything Jesus commanded the first ones. Are men supposed to take authority over anyone in the church? Because authentein is not used positively for men.

@jeanlucjocund The thing is that Paul said his concern was not who was preaching or even if their motives were pure but that the message was preached. How then could he say that in the church he won’t allow certain messengers to speak the same message? That would be inconsistent.

@ChaseLutron Paul killed believers because he was deceived…he was like Eve in that way, not Adam. Shepherds that fail to protect but feed God’s people to wolves were removed. https://t.co/CWJuYvVR8S

@Ashwin_Vengayil @Truth_matters20 That’s a very plausible solution assuming they are unbiased in how they are taking the measurements. But obviously for Adam to see the stars they would have to be made to have the light teach him in days. Maybe the whole thing was supernatural and looking for a natu

@BronWen727104 @Paula_333 But then who are the 'they'? It is 'she will...if they <do things>'? What if these women were weaving jewelry into their hair to try to show who to trust because of the false teaching spreading. Paul didn't want them to use expensive clothing or hair to show their go

@Paula_333 @BronWen727104 That's correct. I guess we agree on something :-) But I wasn't appealing to authority. One doesn't know what is true by appealing to one person over another.

@The_War_Within_ You know, Mike Winger blocked me for being annoying about asking him to stop being divisive and calling people to repent of what he said was a secondary issue, teaching egalitarian doctrine, and then told people to loudly leave their egalitarian churches. He blocked me. But if…

@Paula_333 @Saved5872 @MikeWingerii Yes, and that meaning is discovered by the context! These are not merely idioms, but sometimes Jesus says things like “you must eat my flesh and drink my blood” which isn’t an idiom but you can’t take the “plain meaning” out of its context. It has to be based on t

@KlarsKl I would say with knowledge comes responsibility. They were given equal authority but not equal knowledge given the time sequence order of creation. Adam was told to guard the garden and you are not told this without knowing what you are guarding against. 1Ti 2:13-14 says Adam…

@carol66944 @5pur5y I appreciate your desire to see redemptive threads throughout Scripture, but I think your symbolic reading of Gen 3:16 stretches the text beyond what it actually says. Gen 3:16 is part of the consequences spoken to the woman after the Fall. It shows the woman remaining attached…

@Paula_333 No, that's not it. Paul is clearly responding to things that the Corinthians wrote (see 1Co 7:1), but there are not quotation marks in the Greek manuscript, so you have to infer the quotes. 1Co 14:34-35 clearly stand out from the rest of the chapter, and Paul even says, "What?…

@Emotionscoach @B_Christs_Amb @MikeWingerii And Mike also misreads these scholars a number of times. And I disagree with a number of conclusions from egalitarians, but who can blame them as they are seeing legitimate problems with the complementarian view and trying to come up with better explanatio

@Paula_333 The word didaskein (ie. to teach) is there, but why do you think it has to do with teaching truth when the letter was about stopping false teaching? Also, authentein doesn't mean authority in a good sense. That word is extremely rare and building any doctrine on it alone is…

@Emotionscoach I plan to post a thread on this but I’ve been busy! I kept asking him to rescind his call for egalitarian teachers to repent of teaching egalitarian views of scripture. It’s divisive. Here’s what he replied to someone who asked. Pretty weak response for a Bible answer man. https://t

@Crystalisives I like to frame it as 'authority over' because that accurately describes the problem. Leader just means going before and showing by example, but they seem to think it means having authority over someone. That's not Biblical leadership. Anyways, well said, Rhaven!

@Latterdaytruth Well, that’s an interesting story. But LDS teachings contradict the scripture so it doesn’t matter if Joseph Smith was coronated by 1000 angels…

@PatrickSemani @DLepanto9801 @PrayTheRosary12 Notes are not a sin, but treating them as high authority as scripture can be.

@DLepanto9801 @PatrickSemani @PrayTheRosary12 That’s exactly the answer a RC has to give. Here’s the church’s authoritative answer—scriptural rebuttals not allowed.

@LiamHarperBlack @autocorrect2_0 Perhaps, but so is my wife. And andrenaline is an amazing thing too…

@LiamHarperBlack @autocorrect2_0 Yes, my wife would do the same. But if you were in the room with Hulk Hogan—even being a man yourself, would you go or would you hope Hulk would go?

@LiamHarperBlack @autocorrect2_0 But if 'head' means 'the boss of' and 'the one responsible for others', you don't think an apostle, prophet, judge, elder, overseer, pastor⎯anyone at all had responsibility for others?

@LiamHarperBlack @autocorrect2_0 But head doesn't mean 'the boss of'. Yes, that's right, this passage is not meaning to explain to us that the glorified Jesus is the boss of the church. As God who created and sustains everything, *obviously* he's the boss. But if head means boss of why isn't it used

@ministrymisfit @Duke456521 That doesn't make much sense...but I've reported his posts as racist multiple times and they are still there...

@thebrighttunnel @Rach4Patriarchy No, that is completely false. Paul nowhere forbids women from serving as elders! 1Ti 3 uses masculine forms in the grammar but in Koine Greek, the male form can be used when intending either men or women. And Is 3:12 is likely not even referring to women, or in co

@LiamHarperBlack @autocorrect2_0 I refuse to talk about your mental capacity as that doesn’t contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever. My point was that the wife doesn’t just sit there and do nothing if protecting is required and her stronger husband isn’t available. The problem is you’v

@Ashwin_Vengayil @EricisAmerican @Protestia What you stated there seems fine, but the idea of being "slain in the spirit" where people lay hands on others and they fall back is not something we see anywhere in scripture. The only instance of falling back is when the Roman soldiers and the chief prie

@EricisAmerican @Protestia But you said “further, there is no New Testament mention of any woman being a pastor” ⎯ but there is no one, not even a man, who is called pastor (poimen) in the NT except Christ. And no one is called elder except Peter and John and they call themselves elder. There is a g

@LiamHarperBlack @autocorrect2_0 What was the point that Paul was making? If it wasn’t that husbands are the only ones to love their wives like Christ, then maybe wives are also not the only ones to submit to their husbands…but husbands also to their wives. Eph 5:21 does say this…it’s reciprocal.

@EricisAmerican @Protestia Ok, so we partially agree. The ‘slaying in the spirit’ is an unfortunate practice in the church that doesn’t have biblical roots. But where do you get the idea that a woman cannot ‘act like’ a pastor?

@JosiahHuggins1 @subq You’re treating the meme like it was trying to quote Scripture word-for-word, but it’s a parable. It’s a compressed, satirical illustration to expose the logical flow of Calvinist thought. It wasn’t intended to be a transcript. If you’re implying it’s disingenuous because the…

@RealDavidReece That may be. But what is the 'head' of the house and why are elders never referred to as 'head'? Don't you find that interesting? https://t.co/bfn9yq1jcI

@MackDonahue First, I appreciate you responding. I understand how you want me to let this go, yet you even agree with me that this should not be a repentance thing. Again, when one tells a brother or sister to repent, advises others to loudly leave their church if they don't repent, but then…

I believe the reason why Mike chose to block me is because he has had enough of me asking him to rescind his call for egalitarians to repent of spreading egalitarian teaching. It's Mike's way of saying, "no," but what he did was divisive and completely unnecessary.

@MarkGrote I’m suggesting that we don’t call people to repent of believe differently than us on the non-essentials. But if we sin and don’t repent, we are kicked out of the church. If the person hasn’t been found out, does that mean he’s ok?

@igarglewithfire @MikeWingerii Yes, that’s possibly it. But I brought that one up before. I’ve requested he doesn’t call people to repent for spreading teaching that he says is secondary. He refused. I occasionally remind him. He probably had enough. But why not mute?

@lynne_catmom @Truth_matters20 In general, most protestant denominations (who are not 1 inch away from the RCC) teach scripture alone and don’t add tradition as authoritative. That they still fall into the trap of adding things at times happens but at least don’t claim a separate source of authority

@darylsterk Again, yes, the focus on patriarchy actually seems to relate to “endless genaeologies” in the sense that it is because of their male pedigree that they are solely allowed to lead and teach. Though I’m not sure that this was the core problem for the Ephesians, but perhaps.

@JoeAdrian256 @iheartJ37 @MikeWingerii No, you cannot interpret them any way you want. The context *always* determines meaning. But one must recognize that establishing a doctrine on a hapax logomena is not a good idea. In this case, the English translations don’t help us. What is Paul’s charge to

@BronzAgeLarper @KevinCanale24 @rightresponsem Peter was married. Paul wasn’t. But Paul wishes that all people were like him being able to focus their entire lives on serving Christ. However, you can obviously still serve Christ even being married and having children. Paul’s simply wanting to spare

@Am1argento @dalepartridge I see, so Jesus never existed but Paul did? And Paul fabricated Jesus so that he could get himself killed for preaching this Jesus who he claimed was raised bodily from the dead? “For the resurrection of the dead I am on trial before you today.” (Ac 24:21) “Men! Brothers

@LostinAusten27 It feels like this is what he’s doing. But perhaps he is concerned that some claim that complementarian men abuse their wives or are power hungry. That’s definitely not always the case. But if that’s his concern, then he should have said that was all he meant.

@Saved5872 @MikeWingerii I carefully studied all the passages that appeared at first glance to restrict or prevent women from leadership, serving as elders or pastors or to prevent them from speaking ‘authoritatively’…but what I found is that in each case, we’ve been misreading the text and context.

I even made a personal appeal to encourage Mike to change course on this, but Mike was unwilling. I'm bringing this up again as I think it is important for Mike to show consistency in how he treats those who teach things he disagrees with. https://t.co/dkqXDAB5mZ

@BrandonABourg @PeterNDecker @sister_slay Not only that, but they constantly refer to it. In the teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith (2007), it features the statement: “God himself was once as we are now…” and discusses it as truth, quoting the King Follett Discourse. Multiple LDS

@EMayhiak @davidwrobertson Happy that whatever you agree to works for you. But if my wife and I make decisions by consensus, I hope that's ok with you too.

@EMayhiak @davidwrobertson @ReignCoat_Bo The husband IS the head of the wife...but what does that mean? That he's the boss? https://t.co/MVSw8MyTOy

@PeterNDecker @ModChristChurch @sister_slay What you are describing is clearly grace + works. In the Bible, faith is contrasted with works. Grace is a gift given to every single human but it must be accepted. If you are human, you qualify! Faith is a proclamation of one’s weakness and inability and

@PeterNDecker @ModChristChurch @sister_slay It matters little if there were real golden plates or not. “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is p

@PeterNDecker @sister_slay Also, LDS adds works to Jesus work, but the Bible declares we are saved by faith an not of our works. As soon as you claim some work you did, the gospel is nullified. https://t.co/KcBD5UCVgA

@plasmarob @sister_slay I thought I had a note showing an LDS teaching that the LDS gods who are redeemers of others on other planets are worshipped like Jesus is, but I cannot locate it, but it seems implied if the LDS is the redeemer and is the god of that world.

@PeterNDecker @ModChristChurch @sister_slay But their witness doesn't hold water if they later left the faith, rejected Joseph Smith, only saw them in a vision (that's not an eye witness). They are not like the apostles who all died for proclaiming the resurrection of Christ except for Judas who was

@ModChristChurch @PeterNDecker @sister_slay They claimed that they did and some claimed to have seen them, but several claimed to have seen them only in a vision or supernaturally...and I think 8 of them left the church! If this was such an important revelation, why did they leave the faith?

@PeterNDecker @ModChristChurch @sister_slay Hm. But they all see and touch the physical plates? The apostles died for claiming they saw the resurrected Christ... did any of these eye witnesses die for what they claimed to be fact? Didn't a number of them leave the church and some oppose Joseph Smi

@sister_slay The wildest misconception is that the LDS faith is Christian. Some of the nicest, moral and family oriented people I know, but the teachings diverge from the fundamentals of Biblical Christianity.

@MikeWingerii Excellent collection of scripture. Leaders being the slaves of all shows that leadership is not about commanding or getting one’s way but about serving by example and that authority is for building others up and not tearing them down.

@MikeWingerii @elielrosausa I’m not a feminist—though I suspect you and Mike think egalitarians are—but I completely agree with Mike here and the wonderful passages he quoted.

@heirofascania But Nephi and Lehi didn’t obey Jeremiah’s word that everyone—including Jeremiah and the good prophets and even the animals had to submit to Nebuchadnezzar. And anyone that said otherwise was a false prophet. What about that minor detail? https://t.co/eUTwc4vTne

By elevating its own interpretive and declarative authority, the RCC can introduce teachings that are not only extra-biblical but sometimes anti-biblical. Mary as Mediatrix, the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, etc., are examples of doctrines which contradict Scripture.

What happens naturally then is that those who may tend to gravitate towards a mother figure instead of a father or see Mary as a way to get Jesus to do things for you end up making her pivotal to their faith. 👉 But this is a consequence of RCC teaching itself.

“The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship” but “This very special devotion… differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word…” (CCC 971) If devotion to Mary is *intrinsic* then it is necessary and essential.

@FlatTrads Ok, but what does it mean to be 'head' based on scripture? https://t.co/bfn9yq1jcI

@bibleprophecyus Only if you understand the way the Bible is using the term head is not related to authority but source.

@hyde62056 @ethercoast Jn 19:37 only quotes the first part of Zech 12:10, "And again another Scripture says, 'They will look at Him whom they pierced.'" This was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified and pierced with a spear, but they did not mourn. That is still yet to be fulfilled.

@theviralibrary @NasTiitheGod @Crime_Skillz @Airplanmode1998 Eph 5:21 says "and subject yourselves *to one another* in the fear of Christ"⎯so it is mutual. This is obviously not suggesting you give yourself to other men as you do to your husband, but it does mean that we are to serve each other over

@MikeWingerii But your women in ministry series was just a regurgitation of CBMW material. I’m sure they are very happy to have you promoting their material.

@Kamalamaison @iamtheguardians @tmsilverman @legaltweetz 1. Paul is dealing with a specific deceived woman teaching false doctrine and bringing her undeceived husband down with her (like Eve did with Adam). 2. Head doesn’t mean authority over but source of. 3. Paul quotes from the Corinthians (see

@Reneechop You wrote, “I used to be more deceived because of my empathy,” but I don’t think you should be blaming empathy. Empathizing with others who suffer is part of what it means to be of the same body as believers. That doesn’t mean you just believe false teaching. https://t.co/B5L7sfJMzo

@Reneechop I totally accept that scripture⎯but let me ask you, you are claiming I'm a 'evil man' and 'imposter' for suggesting that a woman can teach truth to men, even from the pulpit (which didn't exist in the first century), and even serve in the lowly thankless job of a shepherd? Rly??

@Reneechop You are making an assertion. Where does the text say that women are forbidden from teaching true doctrine to men? Or teaching authoritatively? Are men easily deceived that they cannot discern truth from error if a woman teaches but only if a man teaches? At what age is a mother…

@Reneechop @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning It’s ok if you disagree with me. You can even call it ‘terrible hermeneutics’. But you won’t convince me you are right unless you can show how all the details in the text fit. Consider the following questions arising from this text. How does your interpre

@Reneechop But Paul doesn’t say Eve was deceived because she was made *differently* but because of the time sequence order of creation—because she was made last. Scripture doesn’t say what you are saying.

@Reneechop Adam doesn’t name Eve here but simply observes from her creation that she is from him and therefore since he is ‘ish’ she is ‘isha’—ie man and woman in Hebrew shows us the source relationship between Adam and Eve (2:23). Eve was the last thing God created.

@iheartJ37 @Pastor_Gabe @jerryzz2 That may be part of it, but I don’t think that “good reputation” meant that people didn’t think the church leader was crazy or has lost their minds or that sort of thing. So I don’t think he meant that the world accepted their leadership in the church for doing publ

@CoreyJMahler Let me be very clear: I DO NOT DENY headship (properly defined). The husband is the kephale of his wife and Jesus is the kephale of the Church. But no leader, elder, bishop, deacon or apostle or prophet is ever called a kephale of the church.

@faithgracesaved It also teaches to tolerate those who do not claim to be Christians but to deal with sin in the church (1Cor 5:12-13). https://t.co/kWZmTw03hI

@CoreyJMahler An egalitarian view of M & F does not deny creation. It emphasizes Gen 1:28 where God commands both to rule not the prophecy God made *to Eve* after the fall that Adam would rule over her. Again, fair that you disagree, but I’m not denying creation and it’s certainly not heresy.

@CoreyJMahler If that’s where I’m going, I won’t be having fun. But why would you even say such a thing? Would Jesus or the apostles speak like this? Is it appropriate?

@sparkobuzzer Personally, when pastors or those advocating strongly for their views block others for disagreeing with them, this IMO is weak. I know people use blocking to manage their feed, but that’s what mute is for.

@LostinAusten27 He likely views this as the banana peel that explains why many churches are sliding into apostasy, so I understand his concern. But this is why I keep responding.

@watotochurch There's no battle of wills if both are serving the best interests of each other. Peace may come from a one-way hierarchy too, but that wasn't God's intention.

@ladies4pd This is an interesting hypothesis (from the Orthodox Church, I presume), but I don’t see anything in scripture tying kephale with the mind, the intellect, the brain or anything like that. While I might agree with you that the emotions and intellect should submit to God, I just…

@TonyG_in_LV It seems that in this way it adopted unbiblical concepts which are explicitly opposed in scripture and completely missed the ones that were there. But this issue related to kephale/head seems to be a problem that developed much later than the first century.

@spshaw0bserver That’s an interesting idea, but it seems that head is not used for plants except maybe a head of garlic or heads of grain. Kephale is used for garlic though it refers to all the cloves and which is the source of seeds or new life of the plant. The latter is interesting as in the…

@SarahAnnRhoades But she didn’t give any details, make any claims and no receipts. Just avoid? Is it because they are egalitarians??

@BronWen727104 @lagracelaverite That’s right! μονογαμικός (monogamikos) is a modern Greek term that didn’t exist in NT times. Paul wasn’t describing a married person but one who promoted monogamy and if married was faithful to one wife. Kind of an important detail. https://t.co/D8TBIODDTA

@WillYoungIII I don’t know if you have rain where you live, but where I live, only the top umbrella matters. You can put the rest away. The husband and wife are equal leaders of their family.

@WillYoungIII None of the lower umbrellas are needed. Seems like man trying to make sense of God’s design but missing the mark. Did you read my post I shared? What does kephale (head) mean?

@PatrickHen1776 @Jiwan_Ko_Pani @oliverburdick But head isn’t about being the boss or the authority. If that’s what the word means, we’d see it all over with regards to leadership. https://t.co/L6ZiusB2LY

@gtheking03 @Rich_Cooper But head isn’t about authority or being the boss. Let’s consider a few questions. https://t.co/L6ZiusB2LY

@ncksmith I don’t see women “mimicking the church” as if men aren’t also the bride of Christ—they are. Paul calls husbands to imitate Christ and wives to submit as they do to Christ, but this isn’t rigid role coding. Paul isn’t saying husbands don’t submit or wives don’t sacrificially love

@ncksmith Yes, but it’s not because of the system. God defined the marriage and the church as a one flesh source relationship so we would see and treat one another rightly. That’s the ‘why’ that’s often missing here. When a leader sees himself as the boss, he’s completely missing it.

@ncksmith The problem in Genesis is that Adam didn’t treat Eve as his own flesh. He was not deceived; only she was deceived, but he didn’t help her.

@ncksmith It means that you are to remember that your wife, while she is from another family, is one flesh with you in marriage. Just as Eve wasn’t created separately from the dust but from Adam’s flesh and bone, so you should see her and treat her as your very flesh! Not a slave or…

@megbasham But the ‘denomination’ which in this case is one of the largest co-operation of churches, should not try to enforce a debatable matter that is not primary to the faith. Right?

@megbasham It’s not progressive to continue allowing independent Baptist churches to appoint female pastors based on no scriptural ban. Can’t speak to the rest of the disagreements, but keep the main thing the main thing and have charity in the other stuff.

@megbasham Hm. It seems in this case that some churches believe that their leadership should be only male. Fine. I go to a church like that. But if a church reads the text and draws a different conclusion without rejecting the inspired text, why are you judging them if they ask to…

@JohnMar98888097 @smashbaals But you take it too far to say God commands the pastor be male. There is no command here, and in Koine Greek, the male form can be used in a generic way of both male and female depending on the context. To clarify, Paul would need to say that an overseer must not be a fe

@SonOfManXY @smashbaals In a marriage, man is the head of his wife and Christ is the head of His church, both are one flesh relationships and the basis for marriage had Eve made from Adam’s flesh and bone and Jesus provide life to His church. But head doesn’t mean boss of or authority over.

@MarqueStuddock @smashbaals But you changed the text. First, it says “a woman” not “women”. Second, the usual word for authority is not authentein. By taking a snippet out of context and even misrepresenting the details you can turn any text into a proof text. That’s how cults get started. Try again

@MarqueStuddock @smashbaals If the levite males led simply because they slaughtered the idolators, then what about Jael who drove a tent peg through Sisera’s head? I’ll read your article and respond separately but you still haven’t shown me where in the NT preaching was a) done in the church and b)

@MarqueStuddock @smashbaals Preaching isn’t what was done in the church but what was done out in the crowds. The church is meant to use its gifts for the mutual edification of each other. Church today doesn’t look like the church in the NT, but not sure where you get preaching = warfare from.

@MarqueStuddock @BronWen727104 @smashbaals Paul says it was because he wasn’t deceived not because of being the boss. Culpability goes to the one who knows better but does nothing, not because he was male.

@MarqueStuddock @BronWen727104 @smashbaals Submitting to doesn’t mean hierarchically underneath as in a command/control structure. That’s not the NT model. It means not always doing what you want but what is best for others.

@DLepanto9801 @PatrickSemani @PrayTheRosary12 To obey what Jesus commanded. But it isn’t always possible. And RCC who grew up in the church are NEVER baptized when they believe so they clearly are not following the scripture since baptism always followed belief or was coincident with it. Phillip is

@MarqueStuddock @smashbaals First, that men are physically stronger man mean they are more suited to plowing fields, but what does that have to do with teaching? Women cannot teach others? Second, the fall happened because Eve was deceived and Adam had knowledge she didn’t and didn’t help but indul

@Gates_of_Derry @colinsmo Someone who advocates for plural marriages is clearly doing something that is not promoted in the New Testament. 1Ti 3:2 can’t mean that an overseer must be married (Paul was single) or male but it certainly means monogamous and someone who promotes monogamy. https://t.co/7

@FNANVG @LionofJudah444 @oliverburdick The church obeys Christ…yes. But when it comes to subjection, this is mutual because it’s not about hierarchy. Jesus doesn’t say that He takes authority over His bride—His authority is for her benefit. She sits on His throne with Him and judges the nations and

@FNANVG @LionofJudah444 @oliverburdick This was never about hierarchy, but about service. It’s about serving another’s needs above your own desires. And Christ absolutely does this for His church and we also do this for Christ.

@cgore @smashbaals A verse taken out of context is a pretext for a proof text. First, the grammar is indicating that this is not about all women (as in the prior verse) but 'a woman'... and from v14, 'the woman' is an anaphoric reference showing it is a specific woman. In the context, Paul is…

@LionofJudah444 @FNANVG @oliverburdick It is not even just husbands to wives and wives to husbands but each person in the body of Christ to each other person. To hypotasso means to work for the best of another which means not always doing what you want but what’s best for another.

@biblemarriages @yallbenonsense @MikeWingerii That is correct. So the husband is missing this grace of his wife’s wisdom that could be his. This is not about authority but about grace.

@biblemarriages @yallbenonsense @MikeWingerii You are reading that “the instructions” to do what the Prov 31 woman did came from him but that is nowhere in this text. What she did was never qualified by confirming or getting authorization from her husband.

@biblemarriages @yallbenonsense @MikeWingerii This was not related to vows but it shows that a wife still had agency when her husband was foolish and her agency resulted in stopping the consequences of her foolish actions. Once her husband died she was free. And at that time a man was permitted to h

@biblemarriages @yallbenonsense @MikeWingerii Well that is true but the man never gets this grace of being able to get out of his foolish vows.

@truth_john_14_6 @smashbaals What matters is not what specific body that God gifts and enables to serve Him, but that this person is of godly character and has the ability to teach and teaches the truth. That one is male or female is itself not the point except that it is helpful for women to have a

@biblemarriages @yallbenonsense @MikeWingerii Right. I should have made that one separate. Hannah initiates with God and makes a vow and later tells Elkanah her plan. He didn’t overhear her vow but she told him about it. So his involvement was only because Hannah informed him of her plan.

@biblemarriages @yallbenonsense @MikeWingerii This is a good question. I'm not sure I have all the answers on this one, but here is my thinking. One reason may be because many wives were much younger (sometimes teenagers) when married to older men. Perhaps in such cases, a husband might serve as a

@biblemarriages @MikeWingerii @JonByers186054 Jon is pretty adamant that he thinks I’m a heretic and hellbound so I’m not sure he wants to engage further on this topic. But who knows…

@JonByers186054 @dalepartridge Christ is King, yes. And where does He seat His church? Under His feet or together with Him on His throne? Nowhere does it say that Jesus takes authority OVER His bride, but that His authority is for the BENEFIT of His bride. The church is not God, but Jesus doesn’t

@AlanDMyattPhD That’s right! Even though they claim to have the power to trump their wives, they recognize in practice that this doesn’t work because she was created as his equal counterpart, not his slave. But they can’t shake the teaching because they think it’s tied to the gospel!

@JonByers186054 @dalepartridge There you go again—reinterpreting what I’m saying to try to have me claim that I think I become God in heaven. Being equal doesn’t mean equal in all ways, but it means that Jesus doesn’t put His church under His feet but treats her as one flesh with the resurrected J

@JonByers186054 @dalepartridge No, scripture doesn’t say that the Father gives *US* all authority, but Christ…*FOR* the benefit of the Church. We are not under His feet. This is clear! You cannot be with Him on His throne and under His feet at the same time!

@JonByers186054 @dalepartridge I appreciate you decided to not speak with sarcasm. And no, I have not rejected Christ in any way—I believe and follow His Word! Jesus is the uncreated creator and as such is in authority over all, but scripture is not describing the resurrected Jesus as putting the Ch

@JonByers186054 @dalepartridge Jesus taught his followers to teach everyone everywhere to obey everything He commanded his disciples. But you exclude women? Jesus isn’t a feminist Christ. Flipping tables isn’t something for only power lifters… strange example you give.

@dalepartridge Nothing wrong with men driving. I like to drive and mostly drive when we are together in the car. But I don’t appreciate when you call me gay for letting my wife drive.

@ryancduff @Duke_Danny_5 Well, he still draws the line on language which is unfortunate. He declares he is the authority of his wife but he never moves forward until there’s consensus—which is how egalitarian marriage works.

@carol66944 @MikeWingerii Yes…but it still says he is the kephale. My point is that this isn’t referring to his role as the boss. Paul even says “not all are an eye” which is part of the head, isn’t it?

@DannySlavich James wasn’t just referring to the poor and the rich. He could have just as well been referring to egalitarians and complementarians—some of the latter who are not even content to have the former sit in their own churches but have to relegate them outside of fellowship. https://t.co/TV

@carol66944 @MikeWingerii I agree that scripture is not teaching male authority. But kephale is there and it does say that the husband is the kephale of his wife. That has nothing to do with social theory.

@baptistvibes Also, even in the case of mentor-mentee, this does not mean your mentor has authority over you but that you are learning from them.

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii You are right, it doesn't refute hierarchy, but it is what Paul uses to balance out his statement that the first woman was made for the man. Paul's argument wasn't about hierarchy in the first place. Paul is consistently speaking about mutually serv

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii Our interpretations differ, but we are hopefully both looking to see whether our interpretations line up with scripture. At least I hope so. You note that the woman is called "helper" which is also what the Holy Spirit is called and He is not in hi

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii "the husband does not submit to his wife in the same manner as she does" But how can you substantiate this given the Bible never says this and when we in fact we have statements to the contrary: 1. Eph 5:21 says subjection is one to another. 2. 1Co

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii But the fact that Paul uses creation language to say that woman was made for man is not to support an argument for hierarchy since that wasn't his argument. I don't see where hierarchy is implied either since Paul later says that every man after the

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii I'll make a point and ask a question. First, my point: the NASB adds "sign of authority" but this is not in the Greek. Question: why does it shame Christ if a man uncovers his head while praying or prophesying (1Co 11:4)?

@amacarthur @ryancduff @MikeWingerii I don't mind you going fishing and replying later. But are you suggesting that husbands ruling over their wives is correct because of survivorship bias? I just don't understand how you are connecting the analogy and it seems unfair that you don't want to explain

@grok @quathamer @dalepartridge Notice how Paul says “I do not permit” showing there is a reason. It’s not that God forbids but that Paul has assessed the situation and this woman needs to stop teaching and learn the truth first. Pay attention @grok…things for you to learn here.

@wife2sirhusband @MikeWingerii As God He is clearly the ‘boss’ of the universe and can do as He pleases. But He does not present Himself in the incarnation and the resurrection as the boss of His bride. I mean just show me where. It should be easy if it’s everywhere, right?

@billyruck @iheartJ37 @MikeWingerii What was uncharitable? Mike told me to repent for spreading the teaching. It was about spreading the teaching that he saw as doing great harm. Then he listed several people who acted improperly towards comps which did not describe me. But he sees me as the cause o

@DavePellowe @MikeWingerii But one thinks ‘male headship’ is simply mapping back to Adam being the source material for Eve, headship being about source relationships. The other thinks it’s about power or authority over a person (more like how the world views ‘head’). These differences are not here

@xforumuk @travismsnow I’m using Logos Bible software. Your first link was from the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew text. In that case, both Gen 1:1 and Ex 20:11 are consistent in the Greek using the singular heaven. But the Hebrew in both Gen 1:1 and Ex 20:11 is plural.

@faboIus Well the intention was to represent what we all are unified on across every church and that which if you don’t believe then you are not Christian. But I find churches are using “Statement of Faith” to also describe their distinct views on things we can disagree on.

@xforumuk @travismsnow Plants growing on Day 3 without the sun is only illogical if God is not capable of sustaining life without natural means. But Scripture consistently shows God sustains life directly (e.g., manna, water from rock).

@dalepartridge Also, note how Paul applies how Eve was deceived to the whole Corinthian church (which includes many men): “But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.” (2Co 11:3)

@TrueChristian00 @DrFrankTurek You wrote: “If an angel can materialize in human form as they did throughout Scripture and eat food in Genesis 19:1–3, then Jesus, who is now greater than angels in Hebrews 1:3, 4, could definitely do the same.” First—Gen 18–19 is not about shape-shifting angels but a

@TrueChristian00 @DrFrankTurek Your quoted 1 Pe 3:18 “He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.” You said “He wasn’t simply resuscitated in the same fleshly body.” However, the Greek construction supports reading ‘made alive by the Spirit’ — not that Jesus became a spirit being

@CrackaNyc @IndianaBrunner @DrFrankTurek All Christians adhere to the Nicene Creed. JWs and Mormons do not, BTW. The same can be said of some other cult groups like the Christadelphians. These are cults that use the Bible but deny fundamental essentials required to be Christian.

@Jondaphemp @WayneShaff60221 The teaching of Calvinism damages the body of Christ, but I don’t believe RC is a false teacher. What he believes about what God does behind the scenes is not a primary matter of the faith even if he is wrong. Thankfully, he preached to people even if they were not prede

@JamesPelton18 @autocorrect2_0 They have equal authority over each other’s bodies but it is framed as how they have given up authority over their own bodies because of their marital vows.

@autocorrect2_0 At least someone who truly lives like he describes won’t overrule his wife because it’s not about him or his timing or his desires but about serving her. Yes, the husband is to love his wife but ever wonder why the same passage doesn’t tell wives to love their husbands? 🤔

@MissionaryJC3 @NateSchlomann Interesting. I wonder what else Paul could get away with which he doesn’t have to abide by but everyone else does. Also curious that he encourages everyone else to be single like he is (1Co 7:8). If everyone listened, no one would be qualified to be leaders…

@JonByers186054 @NateSchlomann I see. So you use a leash just not very frequently because she knows her place? Or are you one of those who barks about patriarchal authority but lives like an egalitarian?

@JonByers186054 @NateSchlomann repeating yourself again? I get that insecure patriarchal types love tossing around slurs like ‘beta’ and ‘cuck,’ but parroting playground insults doesn’t make them righteous. I already follow the true Christ — the one who commands love, not chest-thumping dominance.

@JonByers186054 @NateSchlomann Jesus is the sustainer of every molecule something we will never be but He seats us on His throne and says that we will rule and reign with Him, judging the nations and angels (1Co 6:2-3, Rev 3:21). Does your wife sit on your “throne” with you judging with you?

@grok @quathamer @dalepartridge Not so. The Adam and Eve reference is using them as prototypes of this couple in Ephesus. Why else would Paul use “the woman” if he meant Eve, but like Eve the woman from 2:11-12 is also deceived and in need of salvation, and since she is deceived she is given the sam

@grok @quathamer @dalepartridge No, Hos 2 and Ezek 23 don’t use she and they interchangeably as referring to the same referent. Here’s why. In Hos 2, the pronouns clearly distinguish between two related but separate referents. The singular she/her represents Israel personified as the unfaithful wif

@grok @quathamer @dalepartridge Ok, but it’s not speaking about the salvation of the they. So your answer is: Women will be saved if women do something? So Paul uses the singular in error? He should maintained the same number on both sides? Is that your final answer?

@JonByers186054 @NateSchlomann I am not arguing for women to replace men as the boss over their husbands but as equal co-partners who serve one another and serve others together without hierarchy. Whether the woman works at home, both, the man does or they share the role, the priority is still on ra

@ronhenzel @BakCuzOfElon @ProtestantFred @Protestia No. But I do take Paul seriously when he says “Now concerning the things about which you wrote…” (1Co 7:1).

@that_foot_is_me The concern is that this one-sided attitude tends to foster entitlement in the husband and keep him from maturing. They tend to stress that this doesn’t mean you abuse your wife—but the fact that needs to be stated is because of the one-sided nature of the relationship.

@collum444 Yes, I see what you are pointing to. The word “draw” (helkō) in Jn 12:32 is the same as in Jn 6:44—but the context is different. In Jn 6:44, Jesus says no one can come unless the Father draws them and v45 explains how. So the Father draws through teaching—and only those who hear…

@ronhenzel You still don’t see it? God teaches all, but not all hear and learn. Those who do listen—who believe the Father through Moses and the Prophets (Jn 5:46)—are drawn and come to the Son.

@ronhenzel Why not just let the text speak for itself? You’re free to hold to a theological system, but you can’t accuse someone of misreading Scripture when they’re simply refusing to insert a theological category—like “effectual grace”—into a word that nowhere requires it. /end

@ronhenzel @Tailfeathers_WA Ron, you’re equating “granting faith” with “causing trust” in a deterministic sense—but Paul doesn’t say that in Php 1:29 or Ro 12:3. Php 1:29 isn’t about God giving faith to unbelievers. It’s about believers being granted the opportunity to suffer for Christ’s sake.

@ChristKing79265 @oliverburdick I read the Bible. “They said to him, ‘Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?’ He said to them, ‘Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.’” (Mt 19:7-

@ronhenzel You eisegeted in another word which you then used to equate learning with “effectual” “divine” “revelation” bypassing the fact that an individual must actively learn. It isn’t passive, but taking the teaching to heart. God cannot effectually learn for you.

@ronhenzel Therefore these verses are not talking about a revelation, but a teaching that a person must learn themselves. God does not plant “learning” into a persons heart. The person themselves must listen first and then take it to heart (ie. learn).

@paulsfam4 The wind in Jn 3:8 speaks to the mystery of the Spirit’s work to those who don't believe, not about the means. Jesus still says in Jn 3:5 that being born of the Spirit and water is necessary—but He never says it’s irresistible or doesn't require our own response. Grace…

@paulsfam4 That’s not works—that’s response to God’s prior teaching. Jesus rebukes people in Jn 5:46 not for failing to be elect, but for failing to believe Moses⎯“If you believed Moses, you would believe Me.”

@paulsfam4 You’re quoting Jn 6:37 as if it teaches unconditional election, but Jesus shows no evidence of this view as we can see from just a few verses later: “Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.” (Jn 6:45)

@ronhenzel They had the Word. They searched the Scriptures. But they refused to believe. So yes, the drawing of Jn 6:44 is real—but it doesn’t override human response. It invites it. And many still refuse (Jn 6:36).

@ronhenzel You call it “plain silly” to read Isa 54:13 as referring to normal Scripture hearing—but Jesus Himself ties “being taught by God” to the human act of hearing and learning. That’s exactly how He framed it in Jn 5:38–47.

@AWanderingFlame @paulogia0 You are only saying that because you think the claims are false, right? But if it is true, how is it terrible?

The issue here is that this is like calling a teacher a hypocrite for saying ‘respect everyone’ but failing students who ignore the rules. One is a moral standard for behavior, the other is a consequence of rejection. Mixing categories creates the allusion of contradiction.

@paulogia0 That’s like calling a teacher a hypocrite for saying ‘respect everyone’ but failing students who ignore the rules. One is a moral standard for behavior, the other is a consequence of rejection. You’re mixing categories to force a contradiction that isn’t there.

@ronhenzel want it would reoffend to get back in prison. It would be pointless. Perhaps the one who didn’t want to be freed changes his mind once freed and is glad but we don’t see this progression in scripture. Even in the case of the demoniacs, it would seem that one comes to Jesus and

@ronhenzel What I see scripture teaching is that we are captured in a prison to sin and death. We can want out of this prison but we can’t free ourselves. We are helpless. Some don’t want out. But some do. If someone came and freed everyone—even those who didn’t want out—the ones who didn’t

@JonByers186054 Some argue “but verse 9 allows divorce for porneia!”—and that’s true. **But Jesus still says Moses’ law was not God’s design—Genesis was.** So even where divorce is allowed, it’s not commanded or ideal. It’s a tragic concession, not a standard to aim for.

@JonByers186054 Let me guess? You were expecting to easily corner me with a poor argument but since that didn’t work, you are going to bow out? You know who also uses the Bible? JWs and Mormons.

@TinaFoughty @The_Sig_ @grungus_4 It sounds to me that John just got lucky and so from the outside his marriage and an egalitarian one look remarkably the same. Mike Winger also said something similar—insistent that he had to be the authority but then said he chooses to never move ahead until they a

@StevenG57428175 Not "All scripture and the magisterium..." Not "All scripture and forthcoming tradition..." Not "All scripture but only with the interpretation of the RCC church..."

@StevenG57428175 But then don't you have to interpret the Catechism? So then your priest is the only one who can interpret that. So basically, the Bible is not written for the believer who Jesus said would have the Holy Spirit in them leading them into all truth.

@StevenG57428175 Catholic refers to the universal church. I am Catholic, but not Roman Catholic. God inspired and preserved the scriptures.

@grok @WalterKissus @dalepartridge LOL…silence on women pastors? Good grief, @grok, how many individuals are called pastor in the New Testament? Surely you jest. Paul doesn’t ground his “I do not permit” in Adam’s precedence but in the fact that he wasn’t deceived because he was created before Eve

@grok @WalterKissus @dalepartridge The time sequence of creation doesn’t establish that the older rules the younger as is consistently demonstrated in scripture. Even Christ is the ‘second’ Adam and he is clearly the better one. Jacob is the younger, but takes precedence…even Israel was like the fir

@grok @WalterKissus @dalepartridge Listen, Paul simply relates the time sequence order of creation to why Adam wasn’t deceived but Eve was. This was not an order of hierarchy but an explanation for why only Eve was deceived. Look at Gen 2 yourself. Adam was observing God creating animals and trees.

@StevenG57428175 Well, the idea that only baptized males can be deacons or priests or bishops has a few problems. 1. Believers are called a kingdom of priests (1Pe 2:5,9; Re 1:6;5:10;20:6). There is no longer a building that is a temple but each believer's body is called a temple of the Holy…

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony @_NoSoup4You_ But the wisdom that Paul gave to Timothy in order to deal with strange doctrines spreading through the Ephesian church is important for us today. It is included because it was from the Apostle Paul. If we had his other missing letters, we woul

@JonByers186054 What? Jesus affirmed the Genesis model of mutual unity in marriage. He taught that Moses’ regulations were concessions, but God’s intent from creation was always lifelong, one-flesh union, not domination or dismissal. I won't repent of what I believe accurately describes the…

@JonByers186054 @_Nosoup4you__ LOL! So if we have male only leadership, look and how protective it was: “But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his trickery, your minds will be led astray from sincere and pure devotion to Christ.” (2Co 11:3) “You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched

@JonByers186054 @_Nosoup4you__ What does "in a position of authority" mean? The scripture is the authority. Can the pastor tell me something other than what scripture already says and I have to listen and obey? Why can women teach other women and children and even individual men but not a group? Ar

@JonByers186054 @_Nosoup4you__ You don't refute an argument by just listing scriptures but by explaining scripture and showing how it is consistent with the context and other scripture. I haven't yet brought in 'extra biblical narratives' but have stuck with the text, so I don't know what you are ta

@Crystalisives @subq What’s curious is that Paul thought the entire Cori thuan church could be deceived like Eve. If the whole church was run by men that means men are deceived like Eve. Curious. “But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray fro

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony @_NoSoup4You_ Yes. But then it makes more sense of the text than anything else I've heard. And I disagree with most egalitarians as I think their arguments have issues.

@LovesSardine The Greek is "one woman man" or "one wife husband" but being married cannot be a requirement or Paul himself would be disqualified and his encouraging everyone to be single like him (1Cor 7) would mean there would be no leaders if everyone followed his advice. The nouns are male…

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony @_NoSoup4You_ The prophecy portion was that Eve would desire her husband. There are things God said would change. Increasing her rate of conception is not a judgment. That she would toil because of how many children she would bear depends⎯I'm not convinced

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony @_NoSoup4You_ Many Christians agree with my conclusions...just not always with the same reasons I use. I don't bring in Artemis as I don't see Paul referring to this cult but to Jewish myths. It matters not where you think my views come from. Be a Berean!

@LovesSardine I am aware that some actually say Paul is clearly forbidding women but that Paul shouldn't be listened to. This is a very dangerous precedent. I am not saying this at all. Peter says that some things Paul writes are hard to understand. So it takes a bit more work. https://t.co/R2KIxsjD

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony @_NoSoup4You_ God didn't say that He cursed Eve in Gen 3:16. Her conception rate would increase (a good thing to populate the planet), and her toil would increase (same word used for Adam) and her desire would be for her husband (she would stick with him) b

@JoeAdrian256 Paul uses the male form of nouns and of the idiom "one woman man" but that does not require that he means male only. There are a number of verses that use aner and clearly mean any person male or female. Do you want me to list them for you?

@JonByers186054 1Ti 3:2 says "one woman man" or "one wife husband"⎯the male form is clear. I never said Paul wasn't using the male form of this idiom. But it doesn't mean male only is what I'm saying. Just like it doesn't mean married. Unless Paul is disqualified. Is Paul disqualified to be an…

@KingRomans828 But also, there are many men who see this as God ordaining them to take power over others. That seems to be a clear connection one can make if God only selects men to lead and that all women need men to lead them.

@JonByers186054 I'm simply asking you for one quote. I'm not interested in reading them, but you claim I got my teaching from them. Prove it.

@JoeAdrian256 I referenced 1Co 7 because Paul clarifies that he is single and advocates for others to desire to be single which would mean that if they all followed his advice, there would be no elders whatsoever! But see, you note as I did "...but *if* you are..." ⎯ faithful if married. Yes!

@JonByers186054 Not one female elder or pastor in 2000 years? You're kidding, right? More than half of the underground church leadership in Iran is female. But my first question is for you to show me in scripture where even a male is explicitly identified as a pastor...just one.

@StandAndKnox Paul himself identifies as someone who was deceived and who God had mercy on. Paul spent considerable time in Ephesus but left some things undone, so he wanted Timothy to remain to stop the spread of strange doctrines. There was evidently a case which Timothy would recognize.

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony @_NoSoup4You_ First, Eve's rate of conception would increase so that the world would be populated since they would die. Second, Eve wouldn't divorce her husband but would desire him (it doesn't say desire to *rule* him). Despite Adam failing to protect Eve,

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony @_NoSoup4You_ Which passage are you referring to? Gen 3:16? God didn't command Adam to rule his wife but this was a consequence of sin. I'm saying Adam didn't have to rule his wife and would have done better not to which is the opposite of what you are sayi

@JoeAdrian256 Well, that's good. But it's probably not good to say "no one" as I have met many here on X that think so. Do you think that deliberately doing what you believe the Bible teaches is a problem? If the Bible says "all liars will have their part in the lake of fire" but you…

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony Actually, I think you are reading your own bias into scripture. But being male is not required for leadership. Maybe if we didn’t mess that up people wouldn’t be convinced they need to change their gender.

@ThokGrararah @DanielleMc24097 @dalepartridge There’s the obvious where His literal words He spoke are captured. But then there is the fact that He inspired people to write specific things down for our sake. Both are the ‘word of God’. “All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching,

@Meritocrating @_Nosoup4you__ @FavaAnthony But interpreting scripture requires the ability to read in context. A scripture taken out of its context is a pretext for a proof text. https://t.co/ZQizsThBcj

@Tako1Fall Wait, how is obeying Mt 28:18-20 good but then if you teach truth and disciple in that truth with a specific title or position you are rejected by God? Are titles and positions sins?

@FavaAnthony You cannot make up what sin is. In no sense is someone who is teaching the truth but doing so as an elder or pastor sinning merely because of their position or title. Titles are not sins when applied to certain persons and positions are not sins when certain people perform them.

@AMalteseSailor A buffoon? So you are calling me names now? Yes, unrepentant sin is certainly a primary matter, but we don't list every sin one can commit in a statement of faith, a creed or confession. Perhaps you can educate me where a female is in sin for serving as an elder.

@The_Sig_ @The_Home_Six That would make you the boss of your company. But what does that have to do with your family or church?

@sola_chad Faith is not a work but is contrasted with works. In fact, faith is an admission of weakness and inability to save oneself and a declaration of trust and confidence in the one who is able. Scripture refers to faith as “our faith” not God’s faith.

@The_Sig_ @The_Home_Six I don’t doubt this for one minute. But is that what the Bible is commanding you to be?

@McMuffin11111 @TinaFoughty @The_Sig_ Jesus is the creator of the universe and evidently that means that earth is not off limits. But he is not like other kings with earthly-based authority.

@sum_of_thy_Word @alhakim120000 Paul's authority comes as he was also an eyewitness of Christ who taught him in the desert after his Damascus encounter. This is not about preaching with authority as Paul himself admits that his speech was 'contemptible.' “For they say, ‘His letters are weighty and

@HollandGreig 'A symbol of' is not in the Greek text. This is inserted to make it seem like the woman has authority over her. But the text reads simply that She has authority over her own head (to decide whether to cover or not). The reason given is 'because of the angels.'

@The_Sig_ @The_Home_Six The Father and the Son are equal in all eternity, but what happened in the incarnation is Jesus set aside His glory and the right to act on His own initiative. Unless you are like the glorified Father and your wife is like the mortal Son in the incarnation, this has 0 applica

@The_Home_Six @The_Sig_ Responding to @The_Sig_, what Jesus did was not initiate but only do what the Father was doing and say what the Father was saying. So Jesus copied the Father in His own power. Does your wife do all the things you do?

@slyoung687 You’ll want to take a look at my post in the comments as my view is not that 1Co 11:3 is teaching about hierarchy but about source relationships. Here it is. https://t.co/IORdUu0T3w

The Calvinist system can’t make sense of this: • A person is first forgiven by God • but later faces judgment. Why? • Because their lack of mercy showed that they despised the grace they received But this is exactly what Jesus teaches. /6

@Glory2God777 @ronhenzel That’s right, “gave” (Greek: edōken) is used in all those passages. But the key issue isn’t whether repentance is *from* God—Scripture clearly affirms that. The question is: does “gave” mean it is irresistibly received and exercised, or just that it is made available or enab

@ShawnBowie8 @smashbaals Teaching, yes. But monologues where only one person prepares to share? Not how the early church worked. Are you suggesting that I divide from my church if it isn’t perfect?

@ShawnBowie8 @smashbaals Yes, my church still does things the usual way… Sunday meetings are focused on singing and a preached message from the pastor. We don’t follow 1Co 14:31 either. Saying this is meant to be done in small home groups is fine, but when do people get to share with everyone?

@oliviakrolczyk_ Paul was not writing a personal letter to Timothy to stop half of the church or anyone from teaching truth. He was writing to stop the teaching of heresy. You are properly reacting against false teaching but misapplying 1Ti 2:12.

@carol66944 @JamesGi27467089 @MikeWingerii Agreed that there are certainly no gender-based roles. But there is the office of elder/overseer and deacon for which gifting alone is not sufficient. The individual must also be of godly character and reputation.

@JamesGi27467089 Yes, the Spirit inspired Paul, and it was preserved for the Church. But 1 Timothy was written to Timothy—some instructions are clearly specific to him, though we still learn from what he was told.

Paul isn’t abstracting gender roles—he’s connecting Eve’s deception to her lack of experience and mapping that to a specific deceived woman in Ephesus. He doesn’t name her, but uses Eden as a parallel Timothy would understand given the situation. /end

Authentein (the verb form) is extremely rare. Winger cites one example (BGU 1208) as neutral or positive. But one document—especially a private business contract—does not establish how Paul uses the term in a pastoral, theological warning about deception and transgression. /9 https://t.co/P3kfj8jNja

The grammar and context suggest that Paul is not banning all women from teaching or leading men in every context, but is instead dealing with a specific woman teaching heresy, a situation reminiscent of Eden where Eve was deceived and her undeceived husband was silent. /7

Mike Winger rightly says that ἐπιτρέπω (“permit”) doesn’t inherently mean temporary or ongoing—it depends on context. I agree. But that’s exactly the issue: the context of 1Ti 2:12 shows this is not a universal law, but a situational application of apostolic authority. /4 https://t.co/pyaJYi8PDk

@LordFerguson09 @Dankrightanon If Paul isn’t using head (Kephale) to denote authority or leadership than the popular argument you (and many others) espouse falls apart. But whatever you want I guess…

@LordFerguson09 @Dankrightanon There was never a female priest. Also, only those from one of the 12 tribes could be a priest, so not even David was a priest. But this is not the basis for elders as the priesthood is related to temples and there is no longer a temple except that of each human’s own b

@LordFerguson09 @Dankrightanon I’m citing my Bible software which shows me the source of the English translation. There is clearly and obviously no explicit pronoun here though it is inferred because of the male form of the words. But that doesn’t mean male only as the male form can be used generica

@LordFerguson09 @Dankrightanon Notice "anyone" not "any male." "one woman man" is an idiom referring to character, not being married or male (Paul wasn't married nor did he have children and wasn't disqualified). Implied pronouns are male but this is the default even if both men and women are in vie

@path1_one @rightresponsem He is distorting the Greek? The Greek is simple. It simply means "head." It's a pretty simple word. But what "head" refers to depends on the context. Disagreeing on non-essentials does not make someone an emissary of the devil. You are sorely mistaken.

@JamesGi27467089 Hm. Women can only serve in subservient roles under male leadership, so what I heard them saying was how happy and blessed they were to see women contribute and serve and even how their mother’s instructed them as children—though such wise mothers would never be elders.

@JamesGi27467089 I’m quite happy when complementarians allow more and more freedom to women to take more influential positions. If it is only a denial of the title but allowing them to teach others including men and provide pastoral counseling, and lead various ministries, this is welcomed by me.

@HeGTiSunesis I knew about the Hebrew refers to the heads of each of the tribes but didn’t connect it with the census in the way you have. Very interesting. Ex 30:12: "When you take the sum (רֹאשׁ, rosh) of the people of Israel..." The LXX translates rosh here as kephalē: "ὅταν λάβῃς τὴν…

@TheAwokeSlayer I am confused. You said goodbye but now you are responding. If you don’t want to respond, then just ignore my follow up questions. If you are a complementarian who lives like me, an egalitarian, I have no problem with that. Just say so. But if you are the boss, then I’m curious.

@TheAwokeSlayer @rightresponsem I’m glad you help around the home, but you seem to suggest that you command your family. Do you command your wife? What kinds of commands do you give her that you expect her to obey?

@TheAwokeSlayer @indigopumpkin @rightresponsem I believe in the authority of the Bible. But no apostle has any authority to command what scripture doesn’t command. Paul didn’t use his authority but appealed. Can’t any believer also appeal? And if what he said contradicted prior revelation it was to

@TheAwokeSlayer @rightresponsem Thanks for highlighting your questions again. How do you know that Jesus nor Paul were egalitarian? I prefer the notion of mutual submission as the Christian view is not about clamouring for high positions but the upside down perspective of desiring to be first by ac

Joel @rightresponsem —you are allowing your misogyny to color your reading of scripture. Your position is merely your opinion—which you are allowed to have. But don’t confuse your opinion with God’s view because it is not the Biblical position.

You don’t want to see…but God reveals the Prov 31 wife working in the public sphere—buying fields, planting vineyards, trading goods, managing workers, and speaking wisdom with kindness. Nowhere in scripture do we see your prohibition ‘Women should not hold civil office.’ /2

@Brandon27614871 @haymes_joshua @dalepartridge I will refute him on head coverings which has nothing to do with my dispensational perspective. It doesn’t even directly relate to my egalitarian views, but expressly what the text of 1Co 11:1-16 states on the matter.

@evaanderberg @Grump_Old_Man @MikeWingerii Yes, there are those who see parts of the Bible as in error. Critical theory is another issue but I’m referring to those who agree with your interpretation of several passages and reject it.

@PrinceAsbel @dalepartridge Let’s take this from another angle then. What kinds of commands from a pastor uniquely require obedience to him and not someone else if they said the same thing but weren’t a pastor?

@Unique95185 @rightresponsem Oh, I didn’t mean just being a good person but leading means demonstrating what it means to be a Christian, to be an example, to do what is right even if no one else does it or even when it hurts. Scripture explains what to believe and how to live.

@PrinceAsbel @dalepartridge Roughly yes, but not in the way that I believe you are implying. It is not submission to authority as you are a slave of another person or that they can command and you just obey.

@kudu_biltong @rightresponsem The authority is not in the messenger but the message.

@Unique95185 @rightresponsem Leading is not about taking authority over people, but is about doing the things Christians should do as an example to those around you for them to emulate. You've got leadership all wrong I'm afraid.

@jatkins19911778 @BMcfonzie @rightresponsem I literally have no idea where you are getting this from. Where does the NT "indict" women *preachers*? Preaching isn't even something spoken of in church gatherings but what one does out to crowds of unbelievers.

@BronWen727104 @RenewedReformed @sola_chad But then why without v34-36 would Paul even say v37? In 37, Paul reasserts his apostolic authority: “If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.” If 34-35 were Paul

@aynirealtor @PrayTheRosary12 What about a set of beads or repetitious prayers with 10-to-1 prayers to Mary is powerful? God is powerful. But He doesn’t force people into the church.

@BronWen727104 @RenewedReformed @sola_chad Philip Payne argues for this idea but I don’t believe it is faithful to the early manuscript evidence. I believe Paul was quoting the Corinthians and so intentionally put v34-35 in, though some scribes later put them in the margin. But the text doesn’t flow

@BronWen727104 @RenewedReformed @sola_chad It is nowhere in scripture. But we do find laws in the Jewish oral traditions in the Talmud. https://t.co/CBNFSu2B8z

@PrayTheRosary12 If by ‘Catholic’ you mean following Christ and His teachings, absolutely. But if you mean praying to saints, treating Mary as a mediatrix, or worshipping the Eucharist, that’s another conversation.

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir But then the appeal to style is due to their interpretive assumptions which I disagree with because of the contextual clues. You can be an expert in Greek and still be wrong because your assumptions are wrong.

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir I have no problem listening but understand that context is key. Scripture is not understandable only to experts! And those who know Greek and English syntax can be wrong if they don’t pay attention to context. It happens frequently as translating is highly interpretive.

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi 1. Your statement doesn't even make sense unless you are saying that you are ignorant of my grammar and semantics. Who cares⎯it's Paul's grammar and semantics anyways. 2. Yes, the nearest anarthrous noun for 'the woman' of 2:14 is Eve in 2:13, but it doesn

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi This is not a popularity contest. If none of the commentaries identify the option that Eve is symbolic of a specific woman teaching false doctrine and "the woman" of v14, the subject of "but she will be saved" in v15 is the specific woman then that's unfort

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi Men does not equal man, but if it did, my point would stand from another angle. Because then the definite man would necessitate the definite woman (in v11-12). Paul wants strange doctrines to not be taught not to stop women from teaching truth to anyone.

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi You have the anaphoric use of “the woman” and the anaphoric use of “she”. So you have no problem with the anaphoric showing up here. But you refuse to acknowledge one specific anaphoric use as it means Paul is dealing with a specific woman who is patterne

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi Style is not a good Biblical answer. Details matter in inspired scripture. And your response leaves us with Paul telling all women not to teach men and supports two anaphoric references but not the correct one and has plural and singular meaning the same re

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi You are just assuming your point. But the grammar doesn’t match. In v8, it is “the” men (definite). The article comes first which means it is not anaphoric. Then in v12 it is “man” singular. We could assume that Paul is talking about a definite man in v12

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi A ludicrous ignorance of grammar and semantics? Seriously? Both options are possible but then you have she as anaphoric pointing back to v11-12 and not the nearest which is the woman. You are trying so hard to avoid the fact that a specific woman was teach

@LatterDayBean The second statement may be correct but the first and third statements are clearly wrong. Early on in the BOM, Lehi claims God tells him he can disobey Jeremiah’s word that everyone is to submit to Nebuchadnezzar. https://t.co/in2PjjN8xJ

@evaanderberg @dalepartridge I'm not arguing that it was common. But as Luther noted, the historical church has got things wrong at times⎯sometimes seriously wrong. This is one of them.

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi I don’t think you can just label Paul’s switching from pl to sg and then sg back to pl as stylistic—though I agree that you have to say this or your view falls apart. But that would mean Paul is not being intentional or conveying meaning by his specific us

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi v9-10 are not only plural, but they match the plural in v8. If v11-12 mean Christian women (plural) then why would Paul change to singular? And why does Paul change from singular to plural in v15?

@ronhenzel @WonderingBashir @HwsEleutheroi Further, you said “a woman “ means women in general but why does Paul shift from the plural in the prior verses to the singular if he intends the plural for both? Can you find another place in Scripture where the singular and the plural refer to the same

@cjhormes @rightresponsem Doesn’t Trump support female pastors? Also, heresy isn’t just disagreeing on debatable matters but on the primary things that unify all Christians like the nature of God, the gospel, the physical resurrection, the deity of Jesus, and clear matters of sin.

@dalepartridge I agree with you. And so women who are leaders and teachers and pastors shouldn’t be relegated to just children or women but be able to minister to the entire body! You made a great argument here.

@ronhenzel @Pastor_Gabe I agree about the bots. But I’m not sure how you assess a ‘deliberate waste of time’ since it’s up to you what to respond to/read and there is a mute button for this purpose.

@pauldirks If he is able to conquer the desires of the flesh (which seems reasonable from your comment) but doesn’t believe in Jesus, then what?

@RobChristisKing @smashbaals Fourth, this is the same pattern we see in Ro 11: “They were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear… otherwise you too will be cut off” (Ro 11:20-22). Both passages teach faith must continue to avoid being cut off.

@RobChristisKing @thatdna @smashbaals If this passage only referred to nations, it would imply nations are saved or lost collectively. But salvation is *always* individual in Paul’s theology: “If you confess… and believe… you will be saved.” (Ro 10:9)

@RobChristisKing @thatdna @smashbaals Paul maintains this singular focus throughout Ro 11:20-22: “They were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear” (v.20). “If you do not continue in His kindness, you too will be cut off” (v.22).

@RobChristisKing @thatdna @smashbaals If Paul meant Gentile nations collectively, he would use plural pronouns. But he repeatedly uses singular, indicating he’s speaking to individuals—each Gentile believer must personally continue in faith!

@out_farther @elondeporter @CapturingChrist Not only does the Bible say it is inspired by God, but it proves it by what it says, how it says it, its consistency both internally and across different books and letters, authors and spanning many centuries, and its prophecy and fulfillment.

@elondeporter @CapturingChrist The canon wasn’t “decided” by councils—it was recognized by God’s people based on divine marks. That’s how we know which books are truly Scripture. Not by decree, but by the evidence of God’s own voice.

@thisardentlife @nraleighsr @cgt1486 @CapturingChrist The Holy Spirit’s illumination is very important but I believe the authors understood scripture—rightly interpreted—to be infallible. https://t.co/rZ4ToqtJL4

@TimRehmer @dougponder I see. So you don’t base your views on the Bible but on some external source?

@TimRehmer @dougponder The authority of scripture is definitely another primary, and I am not only not questioning it, but upholding it! Asking questions about the text is not imitating the serpent. Further, what the serpent said was factually false because God clearly did say what he was…

@ardecllc The Nicene Creed wasn’t made to add to Scripture but to guard it. When false teachers twisted the identity of Jesus (Jn 1:1, 14; Co 2:9), the Church summarized what the Bible already said so believers could discern truth from error.

@The_Sig_ Yes, the wife is subject to her husband but this doesn’t negate the husband being subject to her as that is how we all are to act (Php 2:3-6). You are not a god to your wife!

@Vibeauxs @The_Sig_ Further, the Son is given all power and authority—He is the one who judges the world, not the Father. Of course He doesn’t have authority over the Father but neither does the Father have authority over the Son.

@Vibeauxs @The_Sig_ Yes the Son submits to the Father, but the Father also submits to and doesn’t overrule the Son. They are in perfect unity. The Son is equal to the Father in every way yet Im the incarnation, set aside his right to act independently and so only does what He sees the Father doing.

@Vibeauxs @Eric_Conn Both 1Ti 3:1-7 and Tit 1:5-9 are listing the same requirements which are based on character and proven faithfulness. Paul doesn’t use male pronouns or say “must not be a female” but “women likewise” (1Ti 3:11). The verse many struggle with is 1Ti 3:2. https://t.co/VI2qbiI67E

@Vibeauxs @Eric_Conn As for 1Pe 3:1, submission and service is not specific to one gender but to all. Peter says to the husbands “in the same way” (1Pe 3:7) showing the instruction is the same for them too. https://t.co/JPge5soJWf

@graceforprize @ComeBack_Yeshua @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning You can ask Jesus when you meet Him. But description is not prescription and we know that in the OT, there were 12 sons of Jacob who represented the 12 tribes of Israel. The apostles became the foundations of the church but the church

@graceforprize @ComeBack_Yeshua @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning Paul’s teaching in 1Ti 2:11-15 are specific to a wife teaching false doctrine and a husband who is informed but silent—likely an elder who refuses to stop the false teaching b/c it’s his wife. Just like Adam and Eve. And we can learn f

@graceforprize @ComeBack_Yeshua @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning This is X! Are you not an advocate of free speech? If you want to respond to Laura only that’s up to you. But if what you are saying is truth then you shouldn’t need to fear someone correcting you from scripture, right?

@graceforprize @ComeBack_Yeshua @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning Some assert this but I see no reason to reference Artemis since Paul doesn’t. Paul’s stated purpose is for Timothy to “instruct certain people to stop teaching strange doctrines” (1Ti 1:3)—why would he then stop anyone from teaching tr

@graceforprize @ComeBack_Yeshua @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning Faith is not what Paul is referring to in Eph 2:8 but salvation. We access salvation through our faith which is an admission of our weakness and a trusting in *His* work.

@graceforprize @ComeBack_Yeshua @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning Well, that’s up to you whether you will answer me or not since you seem to think I’m you regenerate. I guess I have nothing true to say, right? Just because Jesus chose 12 male apostles (mirroring the 12 sons of Jacob but excluding Ja

@graceforprize @ComeBack_Yeshua @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning Jesus appointed 12 Jewish men as his first apostles but then He appointed 70 to go preach the gospel and do miracles. Those surely included the women who were following him.

@graceforprize @ComeBack_Yeshua @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning Yes, Jesus sent Paul to the Gentiles, but why do you say he only chose men? What about Priscilla who went with him on his journeys and Junia who was highly esteemed among the apostles? There’s 10 women he lists in Romans 16 and they ar

@JacksonTarwater @EstablishingMan @Eric_Conn How are you a husband but not married? And in v4, how can you have 2 or more believing children without being married?

@Eric_Conn A church isn't supposed to be ruled by anyone. We are not supposed to be rules, but servants.

@SavedbygraceIII @JohnJoh26521652 @Eric_Conn Yes, indeed, I know the scriptures. No, I am not twisting them. No, I am not opposed to God and His Word, but want to follow it precisely. Let’s start with 1Ti 3:2 then? https://t.co/VI2qbiI67E

@EstablishingMan @Eric_Conn The first qualification is being a man? 1Ti 3:1 uses τὶς (anyone, someone) which is not clearly male only. 1Ti 3:2 does say “one wife husband” but seems to be clearly used as an idiom as even Paul himself wasn’t married. Nothing states “must not be a woman.” More 👇 https:

@ncksmith @MikeWingerii Mike could have cleared everything up by saying “I’m not calling those who spread egalitarian teaching to repent, but just those who make false claims about complementarians.”

@joyologi @MtotheBWilly @MikeWingerii It could appear that way but he makes it clear that it’s because of the teachings not that he is calling for repentance for those vilifying complementarians and saying they are all abusive. I think the following which contains more detail is clear. https://t.co/

@Tailfeathers_WA @MtotheBWilly @MikeWingerii Ok, so will my works be burned up but I’ll be saved or will I be cast into the lake of fire for teaching that women can teach truth to men and serve as pastors and elders?

@joyologi @MtotheBWilly @MikeWingerii No, Mike’s point was that just spreading the teaching was causing harm and those doing that need to repent. It’s not about how they are spreading it but the very fact one is advocating for the view and not just holding it inside quietly.

@Keith83361 @Tazorius @smashbaals I don’t follow the culture. I don’t care what they say as they have no bearing on the interpretation of the Bible. Our culture is a mess. But what you are proposing with male only rule is tyranny.

@Keith83361 @Tazorius @smashbaals Egalitarian does *NOT* mean there is no differences between male and female. But just as God created them *both* to rule (Ge 1:28) and not one to clean while the other rules, so both lead together.

My Q1 & Ron's post 2/8: Paul's purpose⎯1Ti 3:14-15 instead of 1Ti 1:3 ? "If you leave out everything leading up to 'charge certain persons' (or 'instruct certain people') it’s easier to twist this verse into a general statement about the epistle’s purpose. But it’s obvious here… https://t.co/2U

@KevinCanale24 @JRowley11 I have never heard asking questions a "poison gas cloud"! How is it indefensible? Ron Henzel took a stab and answered each one of my questions. So it's not indefensible. Of course I feel I have answers to those questions, but I didn't know how complementarians answered the

@Sola_GPT You are right to point out problems in the Christian church. But the issue with LDS teaching is fundamental divergence from core teachings about the nature of God, man, who Jesus is and the gospel. Where did you get that idea about a ‘still small voice’?

@smashbaals But don’t worry! The only thing women seem to be forbidden from is teaching or leading from that 2x2 foot square in the middle of the stage for one hour on one day of the week. Women can take seminary training for the other 99.6% of the week then.

@Shatterhan74807 @smashbaals But it’s true. About Paul I mean.

@Keith83361 @UndeadOrlan @smashbaals No I never said it is less than other scripture! I said exactly what it says “to Timothy” (1Ti 1:2). We can learn from it. But why didn’t Paul say “to the church at Ephesus”?

@JRowley11 @StothersRyan Ok, but Paul doesn’t reveal a standard that runs directly contrary to egalitarianism. Where are you getting this from? 1Ti 2:12?? If that’s the case, maybe you can answer some questions for me…should be easy peezy. https://t.co/a4moxAR19U

@smashbaals @Wesley_Todd_ Clearly they are seminary professors to show you that women can not only learn theology but be good at teaching it to others. Strange, huh?

@DavidGalle94823 @HagemanJack @smashbaals I think you are misunderstanding...the true church fathers are the 12 apostles (minus Judas Iscariot, but adding Paul). Their teaching and their testimony as recorded in scripture is all we need. Are you claiming Tertullian or Augustine are divinely inspire

@pauldirks Not sure but there’s an informative video starting at the 11:15 mark of the following. https://t.co/LBDTc8RKED

@aflawedmanofGod @smashbaals I fully and 100% agree with Paul. I have no quarrel with Paul. But Paul does not agree with Smash.

@ronhenzel @NSReicher No, he made several statements you conflate: ❌"...it's because he doesn't like the answers." ✔️+❌"Bible's really clear on these issues." ⎯ I see it clearly now, but it wasn't at first. ✔️"Thousands have...come to the same conclusions." ⎯ yes, but it's not a popularity vote.

@mbruggelivecom1 @Peacemaker811 @CovenantReform2 Junia obviously wasn't one of the 12, but there were more apostles than just the 12. Recall when Jesus appointed and sent out the 72 (Lk 10:1)? Those were technically apostles as well. You think there were no women in that group?

@BNickdoc @ronhenzel I also appreciate the time Ron takes to respond to me point by point. He is doing what most are not willing to do and I respect him for that. But you might want to wait to hear my response before you think he’s closed the case against the egalitarian (mutual submission) view.

@EManFleming While it is true that man is the glory of God, the woman is also the glory of God since she is the same flesh as man. But the woman (ie. Eve) is also the glory of man (ie. Adam). Marriage always maps back to the first marriage, so we say the husband is the head of his wife…

@EManFleming When God said to Adam “because you listened to the *voice* of your wife” God was stating that Adam was not unaware of the conversation. She never spoke to Adam, but to the serpent. Yet Adam did nothing. He listened yet was silent and ate. Adam rebelled.

@whoalaura @StothersRyan Yes, men penned scripture (though we don’t know for sure that women were not involved—ie. who wrote Hebrews, Ruth, Esther?), but the following passages from 1Peter are clear that scripture is not men making things up or proposing their own private interpretations. https://t.

@Jskellinton78 Hebrew. But there’s a variant in the Hebrew showing it can be taken either as women or oppressors/extortioners and the Jewish translators who created the Greek translation called the LXX understood it to be extortioners.

@RonaldTill13475 @KaeleyT @WayneShaff60221 Is she allowed to share what she thinks is the best thing for the good of your family? My wife and I discuss our different viewpoints and desires and come to mutual decisions. It takes more time frequently, but each time I have tried to push her towards wha

@TheGermanicist Except they all teach heresy. Nice guys who teach family values but then also teach false things about what matters most make them false apostles.

@Adminosaurus I read to where Lehi defied God’s word through Jeremiah and I knew it was false. The fruits include the teaching. Being family oriented is great but if the teaching is false none of that matters. Mt 11⎯ Jesus was also born of a woman; he is saying John was greater than Himself.

@Here_s_Hoping “Please trust us”… He seems like a nice man, but this is not why you follow someone. Even the apostle Paul never said such things and appealed to his volunteer hours as the basis of trust. “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what…

@Adminosaurus @schism There’s a major difference between churches and denominations that are right on the majors but sometimes wrong on the minors and the LDS who claim to be prophetically restoring back to the apostolic church but are wrong on the fundamentals. The Bereans tested even the apostle…

@StothersRyan @M_Jensen23 Yes, they can certainly be used differently. But it would be confusing if the topmost part of the body is meant to be about hierarchical authority and then not to think that the chest is in authority over the waist which is over the knees and so on. What makes you see auth

@StothersRyan @M_Jensen23 The context is what determines meaning. I’m curious why you think the clear terms meaning authority were not used but a body part was? When Paul says that the eye cannot say to the ear ‘I don’t need you’ is part of the head talking to another part of the head?

@seditiouslibel2 @rightresponsem So God’s will involves violating His created order? Wouldn’t God be aware of His own created order and follow it? Who says a woman is the head of her husband? I’m certainly not. But I don’t believe head means authority over in these scriptural contexts.

@StothersRyan I might even offer a kidney to get older manuscripts…especially if there was any doubt in what we have. But we have no reason to doubt what we have in 1 Tim. I’m not doubting scripture.

@StothersRyan Where is the historical test in 2Ti 3:16? I like all of these but I don’t believe they had everything right just like neither you nor I have everything right. They didn’t write scripture. So how does Tertullian, Cyprian and Chrysostom answer my questions?

@StanfieldBrent1 Well, yes, but that doesn’t mean subservient to. I help my wife a lot too. And the Holy Spirit is called our helper. The one who is helped has a need and the one helping as the ability to fulfill that need. That makes the helper more capable, right?

@AntiCommieBecca Over where I live we tend to like minorities so we don’t really have that problem too much. But the male/female thing is still sticky because the Bible ‘seems’ to restrict women.

@Crystalisives @brianaxelm Absolutely. There is still quite a bit of variation as some are soft complementarian and some are full on patriarchalists. But when I visit comp. churches, my wife gets strange looks when she says that she works.

@Grump_Old_Man @MikeWingerii I’m actually not sure. 😅 The church I’m at was RCA (Reformed Church of America), but that denomination has been sliding over the years towards affirming, so our local church left the denomination a year ago. We joined an affiliation called Vision Ministries.

@Rick07200430 @wichman_matthew @CherylSchatz @autocorrect2_0 Also, John 15 speaks about cutting off branches that are not abiding and therefore not producing fruit. So they might have produced some fruit but then stopped abiding. Galatians talks about those who were saved by grace but then went bac

@Rick07200430 @wichman_matthew @CherylSchatz @autocorrect2_0 Ok, this is better. So you admit that you still sin? I still fail daily and I’m working on improving where I’m falling short. This is part of sanctification (not salvation). Yes, Jesus covers all our sin. But scripture is clear, that if we

@TheRednartso @HolyHomebody Head is not being used in the sense of “the righteous boss over someone.” You are importing your modern notions of this term and how we use it into the text. Jesus is God but there is no notion of the husband being the “righteous boss” over his wife anymore than she is o

@elemayohoh @HolyHomebody I have the love of the truth and I know the God of the scriptures. But my concern is are you saying that unless someone pronounces Jesus’ name YHWH using the correct Hebrew pronunciation that they are lost? So everyone from languages are lost? https://t.co/G5llxq7Aen

@TheRednartso @HolyHomebody No, it’s not meant to convey both senses at the same time. Does Jesus as God have all authority? Absolutely! But scripture doesn’t ever describe the man Jesus as ever taking authority over His bride. He does remove “lampstands” and judge the church but we are also calle

@TheRednartso @HolyHomebody You assume ‘head’ means authority or boss, but in Scripture, it often means ‘source.’ Christ is the source of His body’s life. The husband is head of his wife as marriage reflects Adam and Eve in Eden and Adam’s flesh and bone is the source from which Eve was made.

@elemayohoh @HolyHomebody Hm. That’s the big issue you have? You have to pronounce God’s name correctly in the Hebrew? But was the vocalization of YHWH even retained? How do you even know you are pronouncing it correctly? I mean I am genuinely curious. The Jews refuse to actually vocalize God’s name

@elemayohoh @HolyHomebody Finally, the NT’s use of Greek wasn’t a deviation from Jewish tradition but an extension of it. Like the LXX, it ensured that God’s message could reach the world, a key goal of the great commission, bridging cultural and linguistic divides. /5

@elemayohoh @HolyHomebody Jesus likely spoke Aramaic, but He lived in a multilingual world where Greek was common, especially for interactions beyond Jewish audiences. His message being preserved in Greek aligns with the NT’s mission to reach all nations. /4

@iheartJ37 Thanks for sharing! I did something similar last night. I came across a verse and thought how it might apply to a situation in church. It looked dire. But reflecting on it further and by allowing others to give feedback I changed my mind.

@TabeStorm @MikeWingerii My OP was meant to point out that the Bible is stating a fact and not commanding the husband to be the head. But my question is why do we think head means authority over? Leaders are not necessarily authorities though certainly can be.

@fab1usger @Crystalisives @TabeStorm @MikeWingerii I think it is reasonable to ask what it means to rule. But first we should determine if a husband is ever told that he should rule his wife and whether kephale means ruling before we are concerned with the meaning of rule or whether it means to be a

Leadership is about showing others by example, not necessarily having any authority over others. Mike also seems to think the Bible speaks of role distinctions, but where is 'role' ever mentioned in the text? /3

Mike claims that men are told to lead their families and to be the head, but the text doesn't seem to say this. A husband just is the kephale, or head. There's nothing to be: he is by the fact that he is a husband. /2

@TruthHolder2023 The Bible is not merely ancient writings and static, but living and active as it is the very Words of God! God’s Word is over the church, not under it. https://t.co/0wYXGiZi8e

@Adminosaurus @schism First, if only Paul preached it, then how would the Bereans check his teaching against the other scriptures since this is nowhere else found in scripture? Second, Paul is not teaching baptism for the dead but is refuting the Corinthians’ inconsistency. He says “what will those

@Grump_Old_Man Well, if you are a Christian then you clearly changed your views unless you grew up always believing. Did you hold to infant baptism but changed your view? Did you hold patriarchal views and change to egalitarian (for example)? Were you a climate alarmist and changed? Did…

@karsten_boom @MikeWingerii Why? This post to Mike is because I want complementarians and egalitarians to get along better. I’ve been a part of complementarian churches and supported them, but he encourages people to leave their egalitarian churches and make noise on the way out. That’s divisive.

@JohnBasinger45 @MikeWingerii I’m Not a Roman Catholic, but I was actually looking for that list of when they started teaching different dogma! Thanks!

@aarondgarrett Part of the problem is that the churches that support women tend to be liberal (not all of them, but many). Unless women are trained and included with men, you will get a higher proportion being off. One I find is really solid is Kay Arthur. Here’s 1: https://t.co/62iXHcV54o

@SolaScripturaT @BornAgainMissy Why shame on me? Do you know what Paul’s reasons mean? If you do, tell me what time sequence order of creation has to do with why Adam wasn’t deceived but Eve was. Do you know? Certainly it has nothing to do with being a few hours older, right?

@BornAgainMissy Now isn’t that interesting! “All scripture is God breathed…” —but He didn’t use his own hand and pen so God didn’t “write” it. This dear pastor already blocked me for asking him to substantiate his belief that women must be silent.

@Autumn_Armyworm @ImRevAlan @BornAgainMissy I’m not a progressive though. But I am also more interested in knowing and following scripture than some tradition that is followed simply because grandpa thought that this is what the Bible taught.

@ImRevAlan @PFKHealth @BornAgainMissy Surely you know the NT is written in Greek? Paul is quoting from the letter from the Corinthians after 1Co 7:1 but there’s no quotation marks in the original manuscripts. Are you aware of this? Why did Paul change to the singular in 1Ti 2:11-12?

@BornAgainMissy Further, I presume that women learn theology not only for themselves but to make disciples—of children, other women and yes, men. Why would they be able to teach children good theology but not some adults?

@pauldirks The EO calls for a plan to be presented in 15 days and presumably its release will follow that plan if it is accepted, so the details are not being provided immediately. BTW, there is a lot of stuff already up for JFK but small portion is the remaining classified info left.

@prejoal @smashbaals No, Paul isn’t emphasizing the Jewish traditions of subjecting their wives but ensuring that in the congregation people weren’t all speaking at the same time and that they were not speaking in foreign tongues without interpretation. Nothing in what Paul says in the rest of the…

@deensreggin @smashbaals Everyone who learns should learn quietly. Just look at any classroom. What Paul is dealing with in 1Ti 2:12 is not someone doing what men ought to but wife of likely an elder who is teaching false doctrine and he is silent and no one is dealing with it. https://t.co/ZQizsThB

@MLbelch @smashbaals You have no authority⎯none at all. It is all in the Word. You can't tell me to do anything that isn't clearly in the Word. You also don't have the authoritative interpretation of the scripture. Your job is to serve by convincing and patiently instructing, but you could be wrong.

@rightresponsem That’s patently incorrect, but I’ll explain your observations. The good ones don’t want to go to liberal churches and the conservative churches won’t let them lead…so they are all probably on the mission field.

@OrtiztheBrown @autocorrect2_0 @darwintojesus The traditions that are being referenced are what was written down. But I presume that you are suggesting that the RC or Orthodox (insert your church here) is allowed to add to what was written)?

@schism Joseph Smith’s statement sounds humble, but unfortunately it is rebellion cloaked as curiosity. Yes, the church makes mistakes but Smith mistook God’s boundaries for human ones. https://t.co/24pXBjRhGA https://t.co/PsFqURXAHs

@Glory2God777 Hm. But the Bible speaks as though you can either humble yourself or exalt yourself. https://t.co/1OCzIvWNSX

@middletondrew28 @Ashleyhays2089 I’m not saying I disagree with what you wrote here, though I’m not sure about the comparison of Trump with David. David was the least and Trump came to the position as a billionaire. My question was why would he swear on the Bible (and put his hand on it) the first

@KMD_0nline There is still a lot of cases where they are treated as second class citizens…remarkably in many churches. Just watch when a female pastor joins other male pastors in a Baptist fellowship. Watch how the men respond. But yes, women are considerably more oppressed in less…

@Truthsearcher53 Yes, that’s the final application, but it is clear that women are opposed too. Satan went for Eve, after all. Then Adam rules his wife which was never what he was supposed to do which is a form of oppression.

@Christianous100 @lutherananswers Yes, thanks for pointing these out. This is not about head coverings as symbols of authority but uncovering our heads to symbolically show that in Christ the shame of sin is removed.

@Heiserite @lutherananswers And sometimes you can only get so far in one round. Keep thinking about it. I appreciate Heiser’s discovery of what he found on this but I don’t think it’s what Paul was going after.

@Heiserite @lutherananswers But the entire passage to this point has been discussing the tradition of head coverings… The tradition is to *wear* coverings at certain times when praying or prophesying. He says he does *not* have any such practice nor do the churches of God. It sounds odd to say we

@Heiserite @lutherananswers Maybe then you can explain to me how *nature* teaches you the difference in head hair length between a boy and a girl. Arm hair stops growing at a specific length. Eyebrows stop growing (until you get old!). But let the hair on a boy and girl grow without cutting it…no di

@Heiserite @lutherananswers You are interpreting it this way, but what evidence in the text do you have for this? In fact, Paul says in 11:16 that neither they nor the churches of God have any such practice (of head coverings).