Savannah

I saw the comment from Nick as well, and I just had to smile a bit ruefully. How is it that every time these folks are nailed down on the pure mean-ness and total lack of Christ in what they’re putting forth, then all of a sudden “the womenfolk” just have a beef with God and His ‘Word?

I’m sorry, but if you have a position, defend it. It’s just a cop out to basically say, “Well, if you don’t agree with my extra-Biblical position, then you have a problem with God”.

Minister Jacky said, “John Piper may not ever have experienced an abusive marriage. It is understandable that he gives the advice he does; but the whole issue of abuse tends to be very badly dealt with by those who have little understanding of the dynamics. It is hard to understand those dynamics.”

I agree with your assessment, but would go a step farther and suggest that Piper refrain from giving dangerous advice on subjects with which he has little or no experience or expertise. What if the woman is seriously injured, or doesn’t survive the evening smackdown? What long-lasting traumatic effects will that smackdown have on the children that may witness or hear it?

Piper needs to consider some humility in dealing with subjects that he obviously knows little about.

PS – Mara, thank you for your kind words. I took your advice and copied my comment to Hannah’s site.

Sorry, that last sentence should have read:

After all, it used to be argued in courts of law that it was “impossible for a husband to rape his own wife”. Most sensible people who are justice-oriented, however, realize that not only is it “possible”, but part of a continuum of spousal abuse and quite common.

Hannah, I think one of your commenters may have hit the nail on the head (not “Nick) when it was mentioned that it may be that these hard complementarian and/or patrio types do not really believe that domestic violence/spousal abuse really happens. If someone is supposed to be COMPLETELY subordinate to another person, do they even have the right to expect not be assaulted or abused? After all, it used to be argued in courts of law that it was “impossible for a husband to rape his reasonably sensible realize that not only is it “possible” but part of a continuum of spousal abuse and quite common.

Because of Piper’s views on the second-class citizenship of women in the kingdom, I have pretty much dismissed him completely. I used to try to cull out the useful and edifying points of his theology and dismiss the nonsense, but it seems that his ministry and theology are increasingly “built around” male domination. Perhaps if I was male, I’d be better at compartmentalizing the “women need to put up with anything dished out to them” stuff, but being female, it makes it a little more difficult to integrate. I have been told by men I respect that “that’s just a secondary” consideration, but I can honestly say that I bet it’s a whole lot easier for it to be secondary to them because it doesn’t seek to harm or marginalize them.