Scott St. Onge

Thank you, Zec, for challenging me to know the scriptures better.

I believe semantics can through things off track. Here are my favs from all comments:

Ryan wrote, “I believe a husband has been given full authority IN THE NAME OF YESHUA to protect his wife from all…”

Tom wrote, “Christ is the head of the male. And what must we men do? To be led by Him. To be obedient to Him. To no do our will, but His. We are directly answerable to Jesus–especially for the way we treat those women of whom we are the head, as we are commanded in that very passage in Ephesians–”husbands, love your wives”.”

and, “Take a look at the list of requirements for being a male who acts acceptably in the sight of God, in Timothy and Titus. Isn’t it interesting how much longer they are than the “lady lists” in Titus, Ephesians, and elsewhere? In fact its the same in Ephesians–the weight of responsibility for godly living lies heavily upon the one in authority”

Christian Wife/Mom wrote, “I think Christian males and females need to stop worrying about who needs to do what and just love and serve each other. My husband and I have been doing that for 20 years, and we are happily married. We don\’t get bogged down with rules, except to “love one another,” and to love God with all our heart, soul and mind.”

Where the rubber meets the road is proably right inside folk’s homes. Take a peek into mine: in times past I attempted to throw the good book at my wife and the results were disatrous. Over the years I have learned (am learning) to be more patient, accepting, forgiving of her; more loving to her. So in turn our relationship has gotten better and better and better.

Zec,

I apologize for my immature response. Thank you for giving me something in order to re-evaluate my position.

Scott

Zec,

Blow it out your behind, eh?

Scott

I can’t prove this, just as I can’t prove God is real. But I know in my heart He is.

I choose to believe, without biblical proof, that God has given me the responsibilty to cover my wife with a love so strong and pure that she can grow and trust and flourish as the woman God would have her be. It is an annointed spiritual role, and my wife is thankful that I see it that way. And it’s something my son will take with him, which she is also thankful for.

An ancient Hebraic wedding custom included a robe or shawl that a groom placed around the shoulders of his bride signifying she has come under his covenant covering of protection, and spiritual, physical, emotional, and material care.

Verses that help me:
Proverbs. There are..four things that I don’t understand…how a man loves a woman.

Song: Place me like a seal over your heart…for love is as strong as death.

In the beginning, God placed the woman under the protective covering of her husband and took responsibility away from her placing it on the man, because it was the woman
who had been deceived. [Genesis 3:1-13, 16, 1 Timothy 2:14]

The only command God gave to the woman is to submit to the authority of her husband. [Ephesians 2:22-24, Colossians 3:18, 1 Peter 3:1-6] The command to the husband is to be responsible for his wife in a loving and cherishing role.

It works for us.

Cheryl, it’s been good talking with you. Stand your ground on this issue while I go cover my wife.

Covering has nothing to do with control. If I take shelter in my car from the rain, my car does not suddenly control me.

God the Father and God the Son, while equal, have different roles and one role is superior to the other – like men and women!

Jesus said “The Father is greater than me”. He spoke that while on earty but l think that it will be that way in eternity as well.

The Word says that Jesus has put all his enemies under his feet he will turn the kingdom over to the father so that God may be all in all. Jesus destroys the enemies and then hands the lead position over to the Father.

Who gave him the authority in the first place? Jesus answers that: “All authority in Heavn and on Earth has been GIVEN to me.” Given by Whom? The Father.

All authority belongs to Father who had given it to Jesus to carry out a mission and will then receive it back again for eternity.

What think ye?

You asked me, “Do you believe that Jesus is under the protection of His Father in Heaven.” My answer is I don’t know.

Perhaps you see me as the male chauvinist fighting to prove that “he gets the last say”. Seems I’ve read that if a woman is truly comfortable in her femininity, she has no problem with the idea. Because for a man, it carries quite a responsiblity as well. Whatever happened to the man as hero, provider, nurturer, hunter/gatherer, lover, buck-stops-here male leader?

Agreed, Adam failed Eve.

Surely you, Cheryl, will defend your own child before you would defend ten others who are not “your own”. That is seen in nature and common sense.

I believe that God the Father and Jesus the Son are equal yet also not equal. For goodness sakes, there are two simultaneous realtionships there. One of a son to a father, the other as Jesus said, “I and the Father are on.” If you can’t get that, then you don’t get that. No further argument because we’ll just go round and round.

“The best way to show love, is to submit to one another, preferring one another and treating the other with true humility and love.” I agree, but there still has to be a head- a final decision maker. Do you agree? Howelse will the buck stop somewhere? How else could any organization be run effectively? Multiple equal leaders don’t work.

Mutual submission is in the bible and it is written before specific instructions given more the marraige relationship.

You, with your website or your endeavors, do you not have the final say?

Hold on. “Adam had an obligation to protect Eve because he was not deceived.” Are you saying his obligation to protect Eve was not based on his relationship to/with her? In other words, if there were fifty other humans around (just for illustration- I realize there was only two at that time), then would Adam have had the same obligation to protect all of them, in the same way?

Are the Father and Son equal? Yes and no. The answer is both.

A wife is obligatied to submit to all others in the body, as is the man. A wife also has an
obligation to submit to her husband- how else would God command it?

I’m OK with backing off of the your last point about authority, because I think it strays from my main argument, which is that the wife has an obligation to submit to her husband. If we disagree on that, let’s just part ways amicably instead of tossing scripture and/or doctrine at each other.

God is Christ’s father. Does that mean he protects Christ spiritually? I would imagine yes, just as I desire to protect my child. Does my son need it? Why is that your question? It is my obligation to do so.

You say “head” does not denote “protection”. We see a consistent teaching of Paul of subjection of the wife to the husband. No doubt headship refers to authority; do we agree on that?

Wait a second, Cheryl. You wrote, “men are not set up as a spiritual protection for women as if women need umbrellas.”

If that is the truth, then why does God say that “the man is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church”?

Cheryl,

Seems like we both end up with a similar message. You might enjoy my “Umbrella” message at http://www.pureforapurpose.com/2012/09/how-you-are-an-umbrella/
-Scott

That sounds good. Thanks, Cheryl. -Scott