Cameron and Mike discuss animal suffering as a serious philosophical problem, but note: (1) atheism offers no solution to suffering at all, (2) Christianity promises resolution (Isaiah 11 — wolf lies down with lamb), (3) Stephen Wykstra's no-see-um principle: we wouldn't expect to perceive overarching goods from specific instances of suffering.

Cameron takes animal suffering seriously as a philosophical problem. Mike responds: atheism has the problem worse — suffering exists with no explanation, no solution, and no framework for why opposing evil matters. Christianity promises cosmic resolution. Stephen Wykstra's skeptical theism: just as not seeing worms in your yard doesn't mean they're absent, not seeing the purpose of specific suffering doesn't mean there isn't one.