The Path Of The Last Adam

Very interesting and enlightening study! Thank you for this. There is a lot here to chew on!

Cheryl thanks for the post.

I almost got the sniff though of a comp theology in there, especially when you contrast Jesus faithfulness to stand up to Satan verses Adam’s failure to. It almost sounded like the comp argument that Adam did not fulfill his role in protecting and guarding the garden and his wife. For example you said…

“But the first Adam had no care to expose the lie. The serpent told lies to his wife and it certainly “was not so”, but the first Adam did not take responsibility to correct the error. He remained silent and in silence he allowed the lie to stand without opposition.”

Surely Eve knew the lie aswell if God had given her the direct prohibition as you claim. Why couldn’t she ‘correct the error’? And what exactly is Adam’s ‘responsibility’, i thought there was no headship in the garden?

Just food for you to think about in your descriptions. The rest of your article i found helpful though, thankyou.

I guess I’m a bit confused by the comment about Eve.

The bible states she was deceived, hook winked, conned, whatever you want to call it. She admitted the error or deception afterwards when addressed. Adam did not, but blameshifted over to Eve.

I guess his responsibility would have been to say something at the time when he was handed the apple, or when he knew she was being deceived. That to me would be the thing to do, but it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with headship.

I guess that comment lost me. How is that hinting at head?

Karen,
Thanks for the good words!

Mark,
You said:

I almost got the sniff though of a comp theology in there, especially when you contrast Jesus faithfulness to stand up to Satan verses Adam’s failure to. It almost sounded like the comp argument that Adam did not fulfill his role in protecting and guarding the garden and his wife.

Adam was not given the directive to “guard” his wife. But he was given the directive to “guard” the garden. When he let evil in unopposed it was treason just as God considered it treason when a watchman on the wall failed to warn the citizens of the enemy’s approach.

Surely Eve knew the lie aswell if God had given her the direct prohibition as you claim.

Eve knew the truth because she was able to speak the truth to the serpent but she did not recognize the lie otherwise she would not have been deceived.

Why couldn’t she ‘correct the error’?

She couldn’t correct the error, because she didn’t recognize it. The serpent was speaking of things that she did not have experience with as Adam did. She had not seen the Creator in action as the unique Creator and so she believed that lie that she could become like God. She also believed the lie that God’s prohibition was given out of jealousy to stop them from becoming like Him.

And what exactly is Adam’s ‘responsibility’, i thought there was no headship in the garden?

There was no ruler of one human over another in the garden. Adam’s responsibility as a watchman on the wall is consistent with the responsibility that God gives to all who know the truth and recognize the lie. He was responsible to defend the truth and expose the lie. Since he alone recognized the lie, he was responsible for exposing the lie so that the serpent could not kill, steal and destroy.

The rest of your article i found helpful though, thankyou.

You are welcome!

Hannah,
Sorry that your comment did not appear earlier. For some reason it went into my blog’s spam box.

You said:

The bible states she was deceived, hook winked, conned, whatever you want to call it. She admitted the error or deception afterwards when addressed. Adam did not, but blameshifted over to Eve.

Yes, you are right. Adam was not deceived but put the blame on the back of a deceived woman. Eve was deceived and she admitted that she had been deceived and rightfully blamed the serpent.

I guess his responsibility would have been to say something at the time when he was handed the apple, or when he knew she was being deceived.

I see it as the watchman allowing the enemy into the camp and watching as the enemy went about his work to kill, steal and destroy. Adam was to keep the garden safe from intruders and since he had been there with God watching the final part of creation, he was in a position to recognize what was from God and what was a threat. He didn’t stop the serpent from entering the garden, he didn’t stop the serpent from lying to his wife and he didn’t lift one finger to educate his wife on the lies that he recognized. I also think that if he had said something after his wife had already eaten and was giving to him, it would have been too late. But the one who had the knowledge of the lie let his wife be deceived, he took the fruit from her hand and he willingly ate in full rebellion and in full knowledge to God’s command without being deceived. No wonder God calls this an act of treachery.

That to me would be the thing to do, but it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with headship.

Mark was hinting that “headship” was instituted at creation as Adam’s authority over his wife. He has no such evidence of such a thing, but he is saying that Adam’s responsibility to protect the garden is a “hint” that Adam was also responsible to take authority over his wife.

The facts do not show that Mark is right. Rather the Bible is consistent in showing that to the one who has been given much, much is required. Adam had a privilege to see the Creator at work that Eve had not seen since she was the one created last. Adam’s knowledge of the unique Creator was a responsibility that must be used for the glory of God and for the protection of the innocent. Adam’s failure to use that knowledge to protect his wife from being deceived was appalling and worthy of condemnation.

CHeryl,

Here is the problem. You want me to believe that both had equal authority in the garden, yet you admit that Adam had a reponsibility that Eve did not in protecting the garden. So it is hardly a ‘equal’ authority in the garden at all in your view.

Adam in your view also more authority than Eve in protecting the garden, you defined this by his ‘responsibility’. You can’t have it both ways. If Adam had a responsibility to his wife to stop the serpent decieving her then he had authority over her in that respect. Otherwise you could not say that Adam failed in his responsibility.

It seems you want to say Adam did indeed have a role or responsibility above that of Eve in protecting the garden, yet want to try and hold onto equality. THis looks like an oxymoron from my end…just saying! Are you agreeing with comps that one person in a marriage can have more responsibility or authority than another?

Mark,
You said:

You want me to believe that both had equal authority in the garden, yet you admit that Adam had a reponsibility that Eve did not in protecting the garden.

Adam had more knowledge than Eve did as she was not yet created when God created the garden and the animals. If Eve had been around to see what Adam saw, and if God would have disallowed her as a watchman, then she would have been unequal since they would have had the same knowledge but only one would have been responsible for that knowledge. But that is not the case.

God’s way has always been to make us accountable for the individual revelation that He has given us. When God gave Adam revelation of who He is as Creator, Adam was responsible for that revelation and he was held accountable.

God made both Adam and Eve rulers of the world. There was no distinction. Knowledge given to one when the other one did not yet exist is a responsibility to use that knowledge that has nothing to do with an inequality between the two.

Today God gives individual knowledge of His word in a special way that helps to protect the flock. Those who have knowledge are not unequal with the flock that they are protecting.

God has given me wisdom in working with the cults and many pastors have used that wisdom to become informed and to informed the Christians in their church. Does that make me better than the pastor who was not taught this information in seminary? Not at all. But I am still responsible for doing something with what God gives me. Individual knowledge never makes one person as better than another nor does it allow the person who has the knowledge to “rule over” others. Knowledge like this that has been given by God is meant to benefit the flock and all those who have been gifted are accountable in the way that they benefit others. If we hold back our gifts for our own use and refuse to give what we have to serve others, we will one day stand before God to give an account of ourselves and for our lack of faithfulness.

So, no, I do not believe that Adam had more authority. Adam had more knowledge of the nature of God and this knowledge gave him a responsibility that was very grave. Adam failed. We must not.

It seems you want to say Adam did indeed have a role or responsibility above that of Eve in protecting the garden, yet want to try and hold onto equality.

It was not a responsibility “above” that of Eve. It was a responsibility in line with the direct knowledge and experience of God that He had. For them to be unequal would entail a restriction on Eve in the equal knowledge or a responsibility of Adam over Eve. Neither of these are in the text, so we need to stick with what God wrote and He made them both rulers in the same way. Eve ruled in the garden in the same way that Adam ruled. Adam was just responsible for knowing evil because of the knowledge that he had.

I hope that helps!

”’If Adam had a responsibility to his wife to stop the serpent decieving her then he had authority over her in that respect. Otherwise you could not say that Adam failed in his responsibility.”’

This makes no sense at all. In life when see a person being deceived by another God would wish us to point that out. We fail in our responsibility as a Christian if we sit back knowingly watching someone being deceived, and not say anything..and watch it happen. To me that is common sense, and has nothing to do with authority whatsoever.

If a women saw a man being deceived, and she sat back and went along with it she would be in sin. If she points the deception to him is she taking authority over him?

That is like saying anytime we point out wrong doing in this fashion we are taking authority over another. So if a friend was planning on doing business with an organization that you know has fraud in mine pointing that out is taking authority over them.

Pointing out the fact someone is being deceived would be a Christian responsibility, and something God would instruct us to do wouldn’t he? Its the principal of the thing, and I never did grasp how that is interrupted as authority. Its called doing what is right and proper to me.

Hannah,

If a women saw a man being deceived, and she sat back and went along with it she would be in sin. If she points the deception to him is she taking authority over him?

What we are all expected to read into this is that this applies to men only. Anything a woman does, does not imply authority. Anything a man does implies authority. It is the classic reading into the text what you expect to find. I am almost certain that if the text said that Adam scratched her ear and the text didn’t say that Eve also scratched his ear, his scratching would be taken as a sign of his authority over her!

Hannah and Cheryl,

THe scenario you gave Hannah is quite true because both a man or woman have an equal responsibility in that sense.

The problem is Cheryl is saying that Adam has something Eve does not- that is the difference.

Cheryl quite true that we have a responsibility with the knowledge God gives us. However i reject that a pastor, elder, seminary lecturer do not therefore have authority over those they are ministering too. This is clear in the Bible that we are to submit to those who lead us because of that extra responsibility.

They are still equal in their salvation (Gal 3:28)- we are all one in Christ, but some are still in authority because of the position God has put them in.

I can’t understand this “Adam was just responsible for knowing evil because of the knowledge that he had.”

Where is that in the text if we are only going off the text? You are reading that into the text! I can’t see how you can say they had equal rulership in the garden, but include an extra subclause for Adam. Either they have equal rulership or they don’t. Equal is equal, anything else is not equal.

Now if you want to say they are equal in essence yet distinct in role then i agree, since this is what we see in Genesis. It just seems to me that you are admitting that Adam had a different role, but are trying to divert around the fact therefore, that they had different roles/authority in the garden.

I don’t see diverting at all in what she said. I think you are missing the connection!

He knew the deception was going on, and choose to go along with the program. He didn’t step up to his responsibility – that all of us would be expected by God to take if we were in his shoes. No need for mention of ‘roles’ regarding that aspect. He knew it wasn’t right, and did it anyway. That was sin when he ignored NOT doing what he knew God would expect of ANYONE – not just the role of ‘men’. The bible states Eve was deceived, and didn’t get the same clear picture.

It was his responsibility to step up – just as anyone else in his shoes would have been expected to – and he stayed silent instead. There is no reading ‘roles’ into it at all. It’s something God would have expected in anyone placed in the same position.

I’m personally confused as to why you aren’t grasping this. His knowledge was the deception going on – why would he NOT be responsible for not stepping up to mention it or speak out against it? All mankind got dinged for it! He wasn’t removed from the garden because he didn’t do some ‘man role’ – he was removed due to sin. He saw sin and didn’t take responsibility to do something about it. Gender, roles, authority, etc don’t have anything to do with this. Its just what happened – plain and simple. Nothing else to read into on that aspect it would seem to me.

Mark,
I ran out of time tonight. I’ll try to catch up on your questions/comments tomorrow. Thanks for your patience. 🙂

Hannah,

You are still missing my point.

The issue is whether Adam had a responsibility that Eve did not. According the Cheryl (which i agree) the answer is yes.

Now what you have said is quite true but ONLY if everyone has the same responsibility to stop deception. Adam did indeed fail to step in and stop the serpent- i agree with that. The question is would Eve have had the same responsibility if the situation was reversed. From what Cheryl has stated the answer has to be no, simply becasue as Cheryl defined it- Adam saw God create and Eve did not. Adam had the mandate to protect the garden, Eve did not.

This therefore is the problem. Cheryl is asserting that Adam had a responsibility that was impossible for Eve to have, but yet Cheryl holds onto an equality of roles and rulership. They seem mutually exclusive to me. Like i said, they were either completely equal in role/function or they were not. You cannot blame Adam for a lack of ‘resposibility’ if in fact you believe that Adam did not have more responsibility than Eve.

Now clearly the Bible teaches that Adam did have more responsibility, and clearly only he was given the mandate to guard the garden. This is clearly a differentiation of roles or functions between the man and the woman is it not?