Cheryl Schatz

Okay to carry on from Mark original points:

3. Also there is a grammatical problem with Cheryl’s view. When Eve quotes what God said the ‘You’ is plural right through verses 1-5. For example the serpent said “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat…” Eve replies verse 3 “but God did say, You shall not eat…”
   The ‘you’ is plural consistent throughout. Therefore if Cheryl wishes to be consistent, God’s ‘new’ prohibition that is given (which is not recorded) is given to both Adam and Eve, not just Eve.

I think this point has been covered previously, but I will repeat just so that you actually can understand my point, Mark. I didn’t say that the “new” information was given to just Eve. In fact because she uses the plural proves that it was given to both of them. Therefore your claim that there is a grammatical problem with my claim just shows that you weren’t paying attention. The grammar actually supports my claims. Do you understand now?

4 The omission of Yahweh in verse 1-5. Chapter 1 of Gen uses the name ‘Elohim’ for God as he created the world. In chapter 2, though we read LORD God (yhwh elohim). Why is this? This name is used consistently through chapter 2 and 3, except in the verses between the serpent and Eve.

This is a point I have already talked to you about. Argue your points in another forum as I won’t waste blog space on this issue. This is taking us away from the area of women in ministry. And seeing the way you can change the “one created from the earth” into the woman, I think you have taken away credibility from your ability to do exegesis on other areas. So drop it and let’s stay on topic.

5. There is nothing in Gen 3 to make us think that Eve’s sin nature was different to Adam’s as some on this blog would like to suggest.

There is nothing in the text or in the rest of the Scriptures that says that Eve inherited a sin nature from Adam. There is also nothing in the text or the rest of the Scriptures that says that Eve had the sin nature of rebellion. Let’s continue to evaluate your position:

In fact, the opposite is true. We are told that ‘both’ their eyes were open (3:7).

Having their eyes opened has nothing to do with sin nature. It has to do with their nakedness and the sense of shame that they felt. I am continually amazed at the weakness of your argument. How you can connect “their eyes were open” to a sin nature is beyond me.

They ‘both’ sewed fig leaves together in an attempt to hide their shame and nakedness (3:7).

Yah, so? What is your point? I am the one arguing that hiding has to do with shame and not concerning a sin nature in both.

They ‘both’ hid from God in the garden after the fall (3:8).

How does the shame of sin reflect a sin nature on both? The fact is that Eve sinned through deception. She also had to experience shame because she sinned. But to say that she had the same sin nature of rebellion is adding into the Scriptures.

All of these actions which of course are a result of sin now entering the world are administered both by the man and the woman. The woman’s sinful nature responds exactly the way the man’s does.

Again this is begging the question. You are assuming what you have failed to prove. We both agree that both sinned. But one sin does not make a sin nature of rebellion that all of us have inherited from Adam.

Both ate from the tree which was prohibited, therefore both rejected the supremacy of God and his law.

Again you are adding to the text. The Bible says that Eve was deceived. She was not rejecting “the supremacy of God” since she no longer believed that there was a law to follow. She was deceived.

Although Eve was lured into sinning, the result is the same, rejection of God’s command and subsequent punishment.

Oh, really? Then why was nothing cursed on Eve’s behalf? Why did God not say “Because you have done this…cursed is…”? just as He did with the two who sinned deliberately? To say that the result is “the same” is amazing. How is it the same from God’s words to them both after they both sinned?

It is also important to note that the promised punishment for eating (death) is applied to both Adam and Eve. She is equally culpable before the Holy God.

This has nothing to do with a sin nature. After all God told them both (remember that) that they would both die if they ate of the fruit. This is Eve’s testimony. But the subsequent consequences after the fact are not the same. Why?

So Mark you have failed to consider the curse on the earth on the man’s behalf. You are only looking at the death that came to both that was promised before sin entered the world through man. You have failed to explain this from the text choosing to appeal to the assumed conclusion without proving your conclusion. Not allowed my friend. You will have to try harder.