Cheryl Schatz

Gazza #169,

As usual you have well-thought-out questions that shows you are thinking through the process. Bravo!

Firstly in 1 Timothy 1 v14-17 Paul goes on from saying he was deceived to describing himself as the worst of sinners. He also uses this to emphasize Christ. His deception dosn’t seem to exonerate him from his sins. How does this fit with Eve who was without Christ and also deceived. Is she not left as a sinner as much of a threat as Adam?

The deception doesn’t exonerate someone from their sins but because the sin wasn’t committed in willful rebellion, God opens a door for mercy to come through just as Paul said in 1 Timothy 1:15.

1 Timothy 1:13(NASB)
13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;

So Eve just like Paul was in line to be shown mercy because the sin was not willful. Yet the question is, is Eve left a sinner? If Eve was shown mercy and her sin covered over the only way that she can be left a sinner is if she had an rebellious sin nature. Did she have that nature? Nothing in the Bible gives us any opportunity to argue that way in my opinion. Paul clearly shows that sin came into the world from Adam alone. We all have the one sin nature that comes from only one man. If we had a sin nature from Eve this should be hinted at or mentioned in the Scripture. Then of course we have God kicking out the one who has a sin nature and who is prone to continued rebellion. If Eve received mercy for her one sin because of her deception there is no reason to think that she would act in rebellion in the future since she had never acted in rebellion in the first place.

Also was Eve left without Christ? I don’t think so. The pre-incarnate Christ was the one who walked with them in the garden and He was the one that she faced after she sinned. He shed the blood of an animal and that was used as a covering. He was also the one who knew her heart and He gave no indication that she was a threat to walk in disobedience and rebellion when the tree of life was now forbidden to her because she had to die.

Another thing to notice in 1 Timothy is that Paul gives a second reason why he received mercy:

1 Timothy 1:16 (NASB)
16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

While the first reason was personal (“because I acted ignorantly in unbelief”), the second reason was for our benefit (“so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience” as an example for all of us as believers). It was two reasons for two different levels of application.

Secondly you have said several times that Satan can only speak lies. This understanding seems to require Jesus words that came thousands of years later. If this is fundamental to the passage as you suggest how were the Israelites to understand the passage in the interim?. To put it another way is there anything in this passage (or elsewhere in genesis) that demonstrates the serpent is completely lying to Eve?

Again an excellent question!

First of all we need to understand that satan did not become the father of lies and become without truth at the time that Jesus said it. He has been this way since his fall so what Jesus said was true at the time that He spoke these words, but it was also true for the time that satan spoke through the serpent just as it was true in the time of Jesus.

The key to understanding that God is not agreeing with satan is the term “but now”. What was from the beginning (Adam made in the image of God) has something added to it with the “but now…” What is changed? It is the rebellious sin nature that has come into the world. “From now on” there is a problem.

While this passage doesn’t directly say that Adam had a sin nature, the wording shows that from now on there is a distinctive problem. This shows that Adam’s creation in the image of God is not the problem and the lie that they would become like God is not the truth. They didn’t become more like God at all. Their eyes were not opened to godhood but to shame.

I also see that there are many things in the OT that were not clearly seen by all of God’s chosen people of Israel. Somethings did not come to a full light until Jesus opened their eyes to understand the prophesies about Him. Whether the Jews understood that the serpent was telling 100% lies is not as important as the truth of Jesus’ testimony that it was 100% lies. If we believe Him, then we shouldn’t have to look for truth in the serpents words because we should be able to understand that there was no truth.

If I can help in any other way, I am very happy to help out.