Cheryl Schatz

Alex #56,
I had to stay away from this topic for a bit as it took me back to a very painful time and I just needed space in order to breathe again.

You said:

Cheryl, I understand what you’re saying, and I would agree with you if you defined complimentaryism by that definition. However, I don’t.

My lifestyle was the classic way of life for all of us who lived the comp lifestyle the way it was taught us.

1) I do not believe that every wife should always submit to her husband in every circumstance. If what he thinks is best goes against what the Bible teaches, she should not follow him. If what he thinks is best is illegal, she should not follow him. These are huge areas that many of the examples you (and many other people on this forum) mention that I would agree with. Also, if a woman feels a strong desire to go a direction different from what the husband feels, it is extremely important for both of them to understand why.

The issue is not about whether a woman is able to help her husband understand why she disagrees. The issue is whether he has the right to override her will.

Now for the record in my own marriage, my husband never overrode my marriage in the “big” things. For example, he is a very giving man and he decided that he wanted to sell our house, giving everything to the church building program and live in an apartment with our three children. I said no. My husband believed that it was important to have agreement between the both of us in these “big” issues, so he would not override my will as we were not in agreement. But he did feel free to override my will in all the “small” areas. I was not allowed to keep purchases that I made if he decided that I didn’t need them. My will was overridden and I was made to take things back to the store as his power of decision making in all areas of my kitchen were his “right” as the man.

While I am very grateful that my husband did not override my will on the issues that were very big areas for both of us, when he overrode my will in the little areas, I lost my ability to be an individual in so many areas. It hurt me greatly and I did not come out of that bubble and start to grow as a person until we received help and my husband decided to go against the comp lifestyle that he had been taught.

2) If the husband and wife disagree about everything, then there are much bigger issues than complimentaryism. If the husband is always exerting his authority then he is ignoring his helper and (i would argue) is being both unbiblical and abusive.

While I agree with you that it is abusive and unbiblical, the men who do this do not believe that it is unbiblical or abusive. In fact so many of these men are good caring men who really feel like they have a responsibility to be the gatekeeper who keeps their wives from making “mistakes”. That was my husband. He is a wonderful man and the heavy burden that was placed on his shoulders with the comp lifestyle hurt him by making him bare a burden that he was not created to bear.

And I would say you have the definition of complementaryism wrong.

“complementarianism is the “right” and the “duty” of the man to be responsible before God to “lead” a woman and “grow” her because God has placed upon him the responsibility over her and for her as one who will give an account before God for her.”

Complementaryism is the calling of the man to be responsible before God to lead and grow his wife within the marriage. In the same way the wife is called to encourage and grow her husband. This doesn’t mean the husband makes all the decisions (as I mentioned above).

I didn’t say that the husband is to make all the decisions. What I do say is that he has a responsibility to make the final decisions on everything that they disagree on. And since women and men are different they may very well disagree on a lot. My husband overrode my will on what kind of cooking utensils that I should have. He overrode my decision because it was not only his “right” but his “responsibility”. This is true comp lifestyle where the husband has the responsibility to “grow” the wife.

As far as the wife “growing” the husband, this is not biblical either. This is the area where so many marriages falter as either one can feel like they need to change their partner. It is God’s responsibility to work with us to change us. It is not our responsibility to “grow” our husband.

It is important to note that verses 22-24 is for the wife, not the husband (and as such the husband should not learn leadership from these verses).

This is part of the problem with the comp way. Husbands feel like they are not to submit to their wives so they refuse to do so even though all are to submit to “one another” as the commandment in verse 21.

It is also important to look at the phrase “Husbands, love your wives just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her.” To really understand what it means to love like Jesus loved, you must to a fairly indepth study to the scriptures finding out how Jesus loved the church. Then (and only then) can you truly understand what it means to love sacrificially.

Women are also to love their husbands as Jesus did because Jesus is the example for all of us, not just for husbands. Anyone’s sacrificial loving the other will always go back to Jesus. But we are also to submit to one another and we cannot ignore this because it is the foundation of what it means to love sacrificially.

P.S. – As a side note, I really appreciate this conversation. This has both helped me to understand egalitarianism better and to re-evaluate some areas of complementaryism that I hadn’t fully mapped out before. I greatly appreciate your input and perspective.

Thanks! It is always good to have respectful back and forth discussion. Listening to one another is part of submitting to one another. It is a wonderful thing that we can do to try to come to a mutual respect and love.

At this point we are more or less at an impasse. I will continue to read your blog posting from time to time and will read any responses to this posting (especially responses to that scripture). I thank you so much for your civility towards me and my differing opinions and I hope you feel the same way about my responses!

Well, I hope that you feel free to respond at any time and not just on this post. I LOVE having complementarians come here who will be respectful and honest. Whatever truth we may have should not be intimidated by what others reveal about what they believe. We can be like iron sharpening iron so that we can both understand each other and learn from each other.

This has been a painful issue for me as it has forced me to go back into a very painful time of my life. I lost the individuality that God had given me and having someone challenge me that my husband and I weren’t living the comp lifestyle in a faithful way from the basic and bottom line of the male responsibility, really hurts. I won’t let anyone condemn my husband as I know his heart. The problem was not my husband, but the foundational problems that give the husband the burden to arbitrarily make all the final decisions when a husband and wife disagree. The better way that we have found is to walk as a three-some with Jesus as our source. We feel strong when we work hard to come to an agreement and will leave things aside until we can come to agreement. It is an amazing thing to work for agreement and not to give up on each other. We believe that Jesus is glorified in this.

Much love,
Cheryl