Tiffany

I am rather confused on one point- why is everyone assuming submission= complete dehumanizing/infantilizing/trivializing of the individual who is submitting? That isn’t what Christ does to us as we submit to Him, rather He grows us more fully into who we are (which is who He created us to be. I am rather uncomfortable with the idea that Christ didn’t make us who HE wanted us to be. But that we are just randomly who we are and Christ just goes along with us. Simply because He gave us a very specific nature/personality/set of life circumstances and then has us operate and grow within that sphere doesn’t mean He has not imposed His authority on us. We are not deists, we are Christians.)

Likewise complementarianism does not equal the wife forsaking who she is, what she loves, her desires and hopes and calling from God to submit to someone who has decided he is God’s oracle for the family and that only he hears from God. I know comp. and patriarchy is sometimes (I suspect you all would claim often?) enacted this way but that does not mean that it is actually that way. I think we can all be honest and admit egalitarian marriages sometimes have very serious problems as well. I am happy to provide anecdotes of suffering and pain I have seen and read about (as everyone has done for comp) but I don’t think it is necessary. For although I hate the pain that people have gone through on both sides of the camps (and believe God does as well) personal experience does not dictate truth. I think that any egalitarian that has seen the ideals lived out incorrectly and thus resulting in pain would say that the problem is with individual sin, not with the ideals themselves. Lets please do that for complementarianism as well. I think it would be wonderful to see more Pastors and teachers talking about the pitfalls that are within human relationships, even when you have right doctrine, and to see more churches stepping in when things are going awry, but that is a different discussion entirely.

As the discussion has gone on it has become clear that many equate complementarians with abuse, at it’s worse, and deeply mired in sin at its best. No one has been that uncharitable towards Egalitarianism in this discussion (I will readily admit I have seen people behave that way elsewhere, but no one here). If this ministry is really about addressing a perceived wrong in a SECONDARY doctrinal issue (once again, no one in this discussion has claimed otherwise) then lets treat it like that. Let’s continue to discuss the applicable Bible passages with grace and truth and learn from each other.