Tiffany

There are many issues that are truth vs non-truth. A husband cannot tell his wife that the sky is appears green when in fact it appears blue. A husband cannot tell a wife that X is true and not Y without offering proof.
This is because truth is not determined by us an individuals. God has determined truth and it is that that both husbands and wives submit first and foremost too. Any complementarian needs to understand (and all I have met do, but I understand that not all out there do) that he can’t arbitrarily decide truth and expect his wife to simply agree because she is told to submit as unto the Lord. For first, husbands don’t determine truth, and second husbands are to love their wives in a sacrificial manner and being the thought police does not fall under that description.

TL said”Tiffany, I am EXCEEDINGLY uncomfortable that any human being can take the place of God in a woman’s life. No human should EVER think it is acceptable for a man to think he can mold his wife into the person that he wants her to be. God is perfect in all aspects, Holy and without blemish. God only is capable to determining what is best for every human being. Husbands do not share that ability with God. No one does.”

I never said any different. In fact that was largely my point in my comment. To reitterate- yes there have been complementarian husbands who set themselves up as equal with God. That doesn’t mean that is what complementarianism is. It means that those men were in sin. These are two separate (albeit connected) issues. Does the church need to better address sin and abuse within marriage? yes. That doesn’t mean though that “wives submit to your husbands as unto the Lord” gets redefined in the process.

My point in addressing that we need to discuss the applicable Bible passages was to remind everyone personal anecdotes do not equal truth. While they can be beneficial to let those you are talking to know where you are coming from they do not dictate exegesis. Using your life experience as evidence that a system is wrong is not a valid proof. And it makes the discussion deeply personal and difficult to continue. I don’t want to insinuate for one second that people’s hurt is not important, or not worth discussing, or a waste of time or anything else. What I want to make clear is that while my heart breaks for them the word of God stands separate from our emotions. I don’t assume that anyone has blindly chosen their interpretation of these passages at random, but length of study and experience once again do not equate truth.

Kristen- God through out the Bible did much based simply on birth. He chose a nation for himself. He picked a specific piece of land for that nation. He picked a specific tribe for His priests and another for His kings. To diminish what someone is because they were born into without choice takes God out of the equation of where we are born into. Do I understand entirely why it works this way? No. Of course I don’t really understand why God commanded Joshua to kill everyone in many of the cities they conquered. There are many things I don’t understand about the way God has chosen to order this world, and yet it is. I find it very easy to get caught up in my emotional response to what I see and try to determine truth from that, rather than trying to determine truth from what God has said it is. Just because it offends me doesn’t mean it is wrong.