Cheryl Schatz

Tiffany,
You said:

The only issue I have ever brought up in my comments in this thread is “wives submit to your husbands as the church does to Christ”.

Would it not be fair to add that your argument has been that the reason for the submission is because the husband has authority just as Christ as authority over his church? So the question about when did God authorize the man to have authority over his wife is really appropriate.

So no I haven’t attempted to prove anything from Genesis because I am speaking of Christ and the Church and the probative passages are in the NT.

Is it your position then that the authority that the husband has that models the authority of Christ over the church is not an authority that originated in Genesis but sometime after, perhaps in the New Testament era?

The only nod I have given to the discussion of authority is to acknowledge it can be used wrongly and damage people which was an awful thing.

Are you sure that you don’t believe that the husband has authority over his wife? In comment #234 you said:

The prevailing thought seems to be that the Lordship isn’t an authority but a oneness where authority isn’t necessary. Rather that Christ and the church are going to be one in a way where authority is not applicable. I disagree with this. Thus I view the interaction of Christ and the Church differently and think it applies to the marriage relationship in a different manner.

Seems to me that you are saying that in authority of Christ applies to the marriage relationship but in a different manner. Perhaps I have taken some of NN’s comments and assumed you agreed with him. Would you be willing to give your opinion on authority? After all this is what this post is about – authority vs submission.

But I don’t intend to jump into a separate conversation on genesis as I do not have the time for two topics. If this one gets finished out I might reconsider.

Sure, as you wish. I am just glad to have some complementarians here to interact with. You are free to comment on what you want and if you are not making claims, then you are not the one who would need to support something you are not claiming.

As to your insistence of NN to do so, about 100 comments (208)ago he requested a “last call” if you will to him for any questions anyone felt to be of critical importance as he has other more pressing matters to address.

I have not available much today even though I tried. If he is willing to take one question from me, mine is when did God give authority to the husband over the wife? Was in the time of creation, or later or in the NT? When?

You suggest in a comment above that “running out of time” is some sort of excuse given when comps. don’t have answers for you.

Actually I have found that complementarians don’t answer questions by several ways:
1. They demand answers from us before they will answer the simple questions.
2. They say they do not have time to deal with it.
3. They just don’t answer and go on to something else.

If we are to love the truth, then we should be willing to answer questions. I do understand that many people aren’t open to any other view than their own and so they don’t entertain questions. But for those people, I don’t know why they would bother to come on an egalitarian blog? It doesn’t make sense to me at all. There are some basic questions that everything else is built on and knowing when (and how) God gave special authority to Adam that he was to have over Eve is a basic question. Of course if God didn’t give authority at creation but gave it at another time, then perhaps Genesis isn’t applicable.

Given that there have been 300 comments on this topic, over 100 of them just today, can you not realize that is a very legitimate concern whether the person feels they can answer you or not? Surely you have at times had to post pone or abandon web activity for things more pressing?

Sure all the time. However the question I have been asking is a consistent one every time that authority is brought up and we have not yet had an answer from complementarians.

And especially in a debate like this where there are 3 comps (who have all stated from the beginning that they aren’t trying to prove every objection you have to the theology) and by my count at least 10+ egals, that expecting everyone to stick around until you are convinced or they are isn’t reasonable? If someone says- “hey I’m out of time” why not just take them at their word instead of insinuating it is an excuse because they don’t have the answers.

I guess the reason that I feel this way is because of lots of words written about things that are not in the Bible and non-Biblical arguments but no time for the very basic Biblical argument. It is so simple. Or is it? If we cannot identify when God gave an authority to Adam or to any other man, then why should we consider that there is a God-given authority? I don’t doubt that there is a man-centered authority that the world practices, but I think as Christians we need to base our doctrine on the bible and God’s word.

Anyways, looking forward to reading what else you write. I know I have more to correspond to, but it is difficult for me to get everything done and for one person to answer everyone’s posts. I do try my best to do as much as I can.