Cheryl Schatz

Tiffany,
You asked:

you also say that is how the church submits to Christ. Could you elaborate some on what you mean by sincerity of heart? I think I understand you but would rather make sure before addressing that specifically.

I have highlighted three Scriptures below that I believe show the way in which we are to submit. It is not insincere to forced or coerced but in sincerity of heart:

Ephesians 6:5 (NASB)
5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;

1 Peter 1:22 (NASB95)
22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,

Colossians 3:22 (NASB95)
22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.

You said:

Truth is determined by Christ, not husbands.

I couldn’t agree with you more! Yeah! Agreement!

It is a truth that is outside of them, one which they need to find together ideally.

This is the basis of egalitarian-style marriage. Working hard together to be a unity of two operating in agreement.

Although the Bible makes provision if they don’t, telling believing wives to submit to unbelieving husbands.

Believers are told to witness to their unbelieving husbands through their chaste and reverent behavior. Because Christ gives women freedom, it was thought that Christianity would cause women to be against their husbands, but thoughtful caring women who respected their husbands and loved Christ could soften their hearts toward Christianity.

So my observation is that if you have gotten to the point where a trump card is needed that both husband and wife have already screwed up. That neither are operating by the rule of Christian love, that the husband isn’t loving and sacrificing as Christ did and that the wife isn’t seeking to submit (honor, please, etc) as the church.

That is exactly my point. If a comp couple live a life together of honor and respect and love, they will have the exact same model as an egalitarian couple who live a life together of honor and respect and love.

So what’s the difference? The only difference will be when there are differences of wills. If the wife submits each time and gives up her will and the husband is not given the opportunity to give up his will for her, then it is not a truly sacrificial marriage for him.

Now in human relationships the likelihood is that they are going to screw up at some point and then you come up to this idea of a trump card and the husband taking authority, but I think this is a symptom of something already gone wrong. So of course if the husband uses said trump card it is going to hurt both him and his wife.

I agree that the husband using the trump card of taking authority over her will, will hurt both him and his wife. But it is not necessarily something gone wrong, just that God created us with different wants and likes and passions and at times these will clash when we care the most.

And this is a oneness. But it is still oneness on Christ’s terms. He is still Lord.

Yes, it is indeed a oneness. And the “terms” that Christ has set out are shared authority. Although he is the one who will judge and He said that not even the Father will judge, we are invited to judge with Him. His heart of love for His bride shows a consistent loving sharing of everything that He has with her.

It isn’t a 50/50 split oneness, or even a 51/49 split oneness, but a 100/0 split oneness.

I don’t know what you mean by this. We are joined with our Lord, but we don’t disappear. I am confused by what you mean by 100/0 split oneness.

The question I have from what you have written, is how do comps affirm husbandly authority when it is sin that would cause him to take his authority over her will? You said that if he does this then it will hurt them both. That is how we see it too. That is why egalitarians work hard to not have one person take authority over the other. I causes a deep hurt that is not meant to be there in the marriage. And if there is no authority that is taken over another person’s will, then an unused authority is just as good as no authority at all. If I am wrong about this, then how do you see an authority that is not used over the other person as a viable, real authority? And why would God created an authority for man that wasn’t meant to be used? I am quite unsure of your views because your husband sounds way more like a complementarian than you do. I am not trying to cause an offense, just making an observation perhaps from the lack of information?