SM

NN,

NN (357) “I did not say that Paul “attempted to differentiate between husbands and wives” – I said that Paul’s instructions did differentiate between husbands and wives. That is, he addressed both individually and gave them differentinstructions…”

I know. I am keeping up. To your assertion at 239 that your “logic chain proves that the differentiation between men and women is a truth which transcends particular culture – but it does not prove that it is hierarchical,” I responded at 335:

(335) “I do not believe Paul or Peter’s address to wives and husbands was an attempt to ‘differentiate between husbands and wives.’ There already existed within the culture a very clear demarcation between the genders.”

It appears you are reading the Eph text with the presupposition that Paul is establishing a set of behaviors intended to differentiate (“to tell between”, “to distinguish”, “to discriminate”, “to set apart”) husbands from wives. Given your presupposition you read Paul’s text as if his intention is to give wives a mode of behavior that is intended to set them apart (differentiate them) from husbands. In your view, since the instruction is based on an intention to differentiate between husbands and wives, only wives are to submit because a husband is not a wife and a wife is not a husband.

I am telling you that the clear lines of demarcation were already assumed in the culture, and that Paul was using the gospel to inform how wives and husbands live within their current situation not teach some type of behavior incumbent upon women to tell between wives and husbands.

NN, do you mean to use a word other than differentiate or do you mean something else altogether?

NN (357): “(You keep trying to jump ahead to what you presume my argument will be without following the argument itself – one must always read an argument for what it actually is.)”

You give me too much credit.

NN (357): “In fact you yourself acknowledge this “differentiation” but attribute it to culture – that’s a valid hypothesis, but to even make such a hypothesis you first must acknowledge differentiation. Until you can actually do that nothing else that I can say will make sense.”

Again, there existed a differentiation in the culture between men and women, husbands and wives. It was assumed by the culture. We do not agree that the Apostle Paul was establishing behavioral standards for wives in order to differentiate them from husbands.

NN (357): “ So, can we agree on this point? >>The apostle Paul gave different and distinct instructions to husbands and wives.”

Because of the differentiation that was assumed by the culture, Paul shows how the gospel informs their lives according to their station. The gospel elevates their societal obligation by impressing upon wives to “submit as unto the Lord,” but even more remarkable in a society consumed by status and prominence was the instruction to all—regardless of status or prominence–(men included) to “submit to one another” (Eph 5:21, etc.).

So, do you agree that in Eph 5:21-22 the early Christians, both male and female and married and single, who were concerned with status and prominence are instructed to submit to one another out of reference for Christ and the societal obligation of women at the time is elevated by invoking a disposition as unto the Lord?