Cheryl Schatz

Tiffany,
I appreciate your patience. I have left a lot of what you asked me until I had time and I am so behind in almost everything right now in ministry as well as this blog, that likely I will miss some of what you have asked and for that I apologize. Perhaps if there are still questions that you have in your heart, you will re-ask them so that I don’t have to try to re-read all of the comments to find what I missed.

You said:

I am going to perhaps confuse things here and say that the husbands authority isn’t a trump card.

This is indeed confusing because you never define what a husband’s authority is. You speak a lot about submission and then skip over authority as if it doesn’t really exist if you are fully submitted. The problem for egalitarians who really want to be Biblical, is that we do not believe that a husband has been given a place of authority concerning his wife and so when we meet a complementarian who believes in the husband authority we want to get answers from them that we don’t see in the Scriptures. When you don’t define the authority or the extend of the authority that God has given the man, it just doesn’t help us understand your position.

You are right that we are not under Christ’s authority as conquered subjects, but rather as joyful worshippers. And this is a oneness. But it is still oneness on Christ’s terms. He is still Lord.

I believe that Scripture does not make us guess what Christ terms are. Our oneness with Christ has some very real application in the next life. We are joint heirs with Christ and we will rule and reign with Him. That means that we take what He has given us and we use it for ruling and reigning and judging. These are descriptions of a powerful ruler beside Him.

You said;

It isn’t a 50/50 split oneness, or even a 51/49 split oneness, but a 100/0 split oneness. It is a good and joyful not forced freely given 100/0 split onesness.

We do not appear to be thinking the same thing when you talk about numbers and “splits”. I will leave my own opinion aside for now and if you want to know why I answered the way I did with 100/100 I will let you ask for an explanation.

As far as your 100/0, correct me if I am wrong, but it now appears to me that you are talking about a 100% will of one along with a 0% will which is seen as complete submission. Is this along the line of what you meant by percentages?

Much has been made of the idea that the mirror of the marriage of Christ and the church is about representing onessness.

I think you perhaps meant “mystery” of Christ and the church.

Ephesians 5:32 (NASB)
32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.

The “reference to” in Greek means an extension involving a goal. Therefore the marriage of one man and one woman is the original thing but from this original is an extension towards a goal of mankind united with Christ.

After speaking about us as the body of Christ, Paul makes application back to the original by saying:

Ephesians 5:31 (NASB)
31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

It is absolutely amazing that God has created a counter-cultural mandate for marriage. Instead of the woman submitting to her husband’s will, he gives up his own home and his own father and mother to come to her. It is the husband’s initiating of sacrificial deference that brings him to her place.

This is not what the world sees For the world see the husband’s power and authority and the man set up as the master never acquiesces . It is a complete mystery to them but to us, it is God’s revelation of what has been hidden from ages past. It is a symbol with metaphorical significance. He initiates. He sacrifices. He leaves all and comes to her.

I am with you all on this, but I am putting forth that it is this sort of onessness and that is what the marriage relationship should reflect.

Ephesians 5:31 is set up as the oneness that the marriage relationship should reflect. The initiating is never required at her feet. Submitting means receiving what he brings. Submitting means receiving.

More to come…