Joanna

Dear Zach,
Amen to Cheryl’s response to you.

1) You seem to think the Bible establishes a power structure where one group (males) is given, by God, the right to have power over another group (females). But that is a perversion of Scripture.

What is the difference between male supremacists, white supremacists, and Aryan supremacists? There is no difference. Each group claims the right to have power over another group because of an “accident” of birth. What is the difference between totalitarian politicians who want to control every aspect of other peoples’ lives, and male supremacists who want to control females? There is no difference. All tyrants believe they have the right to have power over other people. Whether one claims the right to have power over the bourgeoisie, Jews, blacks, or women, the evil is the same: the lust to have power over other people, to use them, and to glorify one’s self at their expense.

The notion of male supremacy/female inferiority flatly contradicts what Scripture says of human relationships. Look, e.g., at what Jesus said at Mat 18:1-5, 20:25-28, 23:11-12; Mark 9:33-37, 10:41-45; and Luke 14:7-11, 22:24-27. See also Eph 4:2, Philippians 2:3-4, Col 3:12, as well as 1 Peter 5:3-5. Christianity is not about lording it over other people! That is what some of the disciples were wanting to do when Jesus rebuked them!

The male supremacists’ root sin is pride – they love status and supremacy over others. But look at Mat 23:5-12, Mark 12:38-40, and Luke 11:43-44, 20:46-47 where Jesus shows that such reveals a serious spiritual problem. In fact, at Luke 11:44, Jesus referred to those who love supremacy over others as “unmarked graves”.

Galations 3:26-29 shows that distinctions of worth and value are not made based upon racial or ethnic origin, social status, or gender. Rev 1:5-6, Rom 8:16-17 and 2 Tim 2:12 show that all Christians are royalty, priests and fellow-heirs with Christ. Yet YOU presume to have the right to exercise power over women who are Queens, priests and fellow-heirs with Christ!

2) The male supremacists ignore the above passages, and focus on a handful of other passages, all of which are mistranslated.

I now move to the next issue: how does one learn the true meanings of the Hebrew or Greek words or phrases used in the Bible?

There are two methods of literary analysis: (1) DECONSTRUCTION, or (2) SEARCHING FOR THE OBJECTIVE MEANING OF THE TEXT.

The deconstructionist reads in a meaning which fits his own preconceptions. The male supremacists are all, every one of them, deconstructionists when it comes to the “women” passages.

But those searching for the OBJECTIVE MEANING of the text look for EVIDENCE of how the word or phrase has been used elsewhere.

a) If a word is used many times in Scripture, we can look up every use of the word, study the contexts, and from that we can often ascertain the objective meaning of the word. For example, Gen 2:18 & 20 use the word ezer to describe Eve’s relation to Adam.

The male supremacists deconstruct that passage and read in a meaning of Eve’s inferiority to Adam: she is his “little” helper in the sense of, “now you run into the kitchen and make me a sandwich while I do the brain work”.

But those who look for the objective meaning of the word find out that ezer is used 20 (or so) times in Scripture. Twice it refers to Eve, twice to military allies, and in the other places, it refers to GOD, AS OUR HELP, SHIELD AND DELIVERER. Since the same word refers both to God and to Eve, it necessarily follows that Eve’s being Adam’s ezer does NOT place her in a subordinate status to Adam. So what kind of help is Eve to provide? Hummmmmm?

b) If a word is rarely used in Scripture, how do we find out what it means? Well, if it is a Greek word, we have a mountain of evidence we can examine: The writings of the ancient Greek philosophers, poets, playwrights, historians, etc. We look at their works to see how they used the words in order to ascertain the meanings.

Recently, via the discoveries of the papyri & inscriptions, we have found numerous writings consisting of everyday documents (contracts, letters, records, gravestone inscriptions, etc.) written in koine Greek and made around the times of the New Testament. These discoveries show us for the first time what many Greek words in the N.T. actually mean! Get Ann Nyland’s new translation of the N.T. : The Source New Testament with extensive lexical notes on Greek word meanings. The lexical notes are fascinating.

So, when one finds a phrase which is used only 3 times in the Bible, mias gunaikos andres (andra, aner), how does one know what it means?

The male supremacists deconstruct the passage and read in a meaning which fits their preconceptions: That only males can be diakonoi, episkopoi, and presbuteroi, because a woman can’t be “the husband of one wife”.

But it is logically impossible for the phrase to mean what the male supremacists claim it means: Look at this logically:

Mias gunaikos andres is one of the qualifications for diakonos (1 Tim 3:12)

Phoebe was a diakonos, and Paul praised her and her work (Rom 16:1-3)

Therefore, mias gunaikos andres, whatever it means, can NOT disqualify women from serving as diakonoi (and for the same reasons, it can not disqualify them from serving as episkopoi and presbuteroi).

So what you attempt to dismiss as “gymnastics”, is actually Logic. Logic is clear thinking! Logic is a tool which enables us to deal with objective facts and reality, without being influenced by our own preconceptions, sinful natures or emotions.

So what does mias gunaikos andres mean? Well, we know it can’t mean what the male supremacists say it means. We can find out through investigation, that koine Greek was rich in idioms. An idiom is a phrase whose meaning is not dependent upon the words used. My example was that of an American soldier in Viet Nam who “bought the farm”: it does NOT mean he became a farmer after the war; it means he was killed in action. So we can form an hypothesis that mias gunaikos andres is an idiom. But how do we know what it means? Well, those who search for the objective meaning of the text, search the Greek literature, the papyri & inscriptions, for uses of the phrase.

If mias gunaikos andres was in fact on the tombstones of women, as well as men, during N.T. times, then that is conclusive PROOF that it doesn’t mean what male supremacists say it means. And it becomes very likely that the Greek scholars who already are saying the phrase is an idiom which means, “faithful to one’s spouse”, are correct. So, do you see?

Surely, even without your having studied Logic, you can see that this interpretation of mias gunaikos andres is consistent with the undisputed FACTS that Phoebe was a diakonos and Paul praised her to the skies (Romans 16:1-3). Surely you can see that the male supremacists’ interpretation of the phrase is INconsistent with the FACTS that Phoebe was a diakonos held in high regard by Paul. Is this why male supremacists consistently IGNORE Phoebe?

So I say we must search for the objective meaning of Hebrew and Greek words and phrases used in the Bible.

But YOU say one shouldn’t look outside the Bible for word meanings. You thus imply that you get your meanings from the Bible. But you don’t. Male supremacists are driven by their own sinful natures and read in meanings which fit their preconceptions – they deconstruct the passages, and IGNORE the passages in conflict with their deconstructed interpretations. And even when a word is defined in Scripture, as with ezer, the male supremacists lie about what the word really means (assuming they even know).

So, Zach! Are you able to take on two women in an intelligent discussion? Why not take Cheryl up on her proposal: I hereby challenge you: Listen to Cheryl’s DVD, and point by point, discuss it on this forum. There! I have thrown the gauntlet in your face!

Just take heed, the “little ladies” are not ignorant and inexperienced; and you won’t get away with any sloppy thinking.

And if you have any questions of me, fire away! I’m sure you can’t be any worse than appellate court judges.

Joanna

P.S. There is no king but Jesus!

P.S. to Justa Berean: Thank you for your note! It was like being welcomed to this forum. I would have just the note cited by Don Johnson translated: from the French Bible TOB, edition integrale, page 646, note a. I would send it to a French teacher in a university – hopefully a teacher who doesn’t have a dog in this fight.

I live in the boonies also: my most intelligent daily companions are goats and cats.