Tiffany

cheryl- I am not going to be address all of what you said, or even the majority of it. As I stated 3 days ago I need to be done on here. Please don’t misconstrue this to mean agreement or a lack of answers, simply lack of time

re:546you state

You misread me. I was referring to the tactic of using an invalid argument to disprove a valid point

that wasn’t what was being done when the word trinity was brought up. Even though it was clearly stated by NN and myself that there wasn’t a point which was trying to be proven but rather common ground trying to be established, everyone wanted to argue something that wasn’t being said. I’m done with this topic, there isn’t anything left to say.

re 550

First of all, I don’t think that it is clear that you don’t believe husbands have 100% authority over wives.

It should be. Not only have I stated it numerous times, but I gave the very specific explanation of the nature of universal truth which comes from God and the implications for that in the marriage relationship.

Tiffany, does this somewhat accurately convey what you are saying?

Somewhat. The problem with the example, while I think it accurately portrays in one aspect what I have been wanting to get across, it gives the impression the the unique things that make the wife *her* disappear. Which isn’t accurate. The wife as she submits to her husband isn’t going to disapeer. I suspect you would like to go further in this particular part of the discussion, but this really must be my last comment and I need to be coming to a close.

I am going to make one last statement re:authority. going back and reading some of my explanations I can understand your confussion. My intent was never to discuss authority to begin with, but only submission and I should have stuck to that. In saying a little rather than none or a lot, it has made things less clear rather than more. NN said:

“authority = self-sacrifice, nourishing, cherishing, my life for yours…Which is of course not the definition or meaning of authority. Rather, these are the characteristics of the Christian usage of any authority.
To use the English definition of the word – “authority: the power to determine, adjudicate, or otherwise settle issues or disputes; jurisdiction; the right to control, command, or determine.”
Which can of course be be lived out rightly or wrongly, in self-sacrifice or in selfish greed. Self-sacrificing, nourishing, cherishing – these are the characteristics of Christ’s application of authority. Just as with any other natural gift of God it can be abused (consider food, sex, accomplishments, etc.). It can be used rightly as Christ did and does (Matt 81:18) or it can be used in perversity after the manner of the Enemy (Eph 2:2, Col 1:13, etc.). Either way authority exists – the question in our lives is how it is used. And this is what the Epistles repeatedly address as practical to our edification in Christ – they do not say “have authority” – this is inherent in any hierarchical relationship. Rather we are told of our responsibilities in the matter.

Let’s stick with that as what my working understand of authority is. (my back and forth with SM rather confused the matter and I don’t think was helpful) However I still maintain that in a marriage where both are seeking Christ it is basically a non issue. It has been maintained on here that authority is much more keeping in line with the likes of Hitler, stalin,etc and that it has no place with fellowship of believers or even of Christ over His people. It is our premise that authority is not an evil thing, not contrary to the character of Christ or His followers, that He has described exactly how it is to look by His people which is so foreign to the worldly idea of authority that the two bear very little resemblance to each other, primarily in name only.

From there I am sure we could spend another 500 comments on the origin of authority and the distinctions in the husband wife relationship and whether (biblically enacted or not) does authority exist there. But I am not going to. My time to spend doing this has come to an end and I have no idea when or if such time will come again. Or that I would use it for this if it did. Often such topics make much greater headway with much smaller groups.

Best Wishes.