Mark

Kristen,

“You are not submitting to “one another” but only to “some others.”

That’s right, because I’m not going to submit to the 12 year old youth kid in the same way I would to my pastor. It is illogical to demand a complete mutuality submission between all relationships within the body of Christ- you wouldn’t know who the adults are from the children, the elders from the younger etc etc. I will serve a 12 yr old, but not submit in the way the verb is used.

As regards consistency I have to disagree (surprise, surprise). The comp position is consistent in word-study, context, fuller revelation in the Bible. The egal pos insists on a meaning for ‘submit’ that does not exist, ignores the numerous times wives are told to submit to husbands (not vice versa), and ignores the fuller biblical revelation of husband/wife teaching.

In regards to the meaning of ‘submit’, I’ll stick to the professionals on this one-BDAG is particularly useful

Now James 3 is puzzling. Which verse? Where is the VERB translated ‘submit’ which is in relation to Eph 5:21. I sure can’t see it. Maybe you mean ‘eupeithes’ in verse 17, but that is not the same verb used in Eph 5:21 or any other NT command for person A to ‘submit’ to person B. I find it hard to dialogue when we are not even on the same page to begin with.

So I appreciate your challenge, but it appears you are redefining NT words to fit your theology. James 3, is in no way related to the relevant discussion on Eph 5:21. So let me challenge back, where is the verb ‘submit’ used in the NT (other than Eph 5:21 which is under discussion) which gives the ‘clear’ meaning that authority does not exist. This way we will at least be able to agree on the ‘meaning’ of the word before ascending on the context to understand it. Sure the context determines the meaning, but we at least need to know the ‘possible’ meanings before we look at the context so we don’t import false ideas into the passage. Since this is Paul writing, maybe you can find another instance where Paul uses this verb non- authoritatively. Or do you believe that all of Paul’s references with this verb have a ‘re-defined’ meaning that was foreign to his culture?

Cheers

P.S To all egals- when we are called to ‘love one another’ do you take this to mean you love your husband/wife the same as your neighbour, your child the same as your sister in Christ? In other words does the relatioship define how ‘one another’ applies?