Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
Can you provide me with another email address so I can get the answers to your personal challenges sent to you. Or should I assume that you don’t care to hear answers on the other subject (outside of women in ministry)?

So you are not sorry for what you said? For one thing, I don’t think that calling a person a self righteous Pharisee is a cultural issue. I would think that it is rude in any culture to judge one’s heart and to use an example of Jesus’ judgment to say that the other person is like that judged person. If you don’t think so, then I would think that it is a problem not of culture, but of your own value system.

Secondly I think that it is a great value for you to be here. Quite a few of us have voiced that. In other words it is a value for us although you may not see it as a value to you. You said:

I say one thing, you disagree…you say one thing, i disagree.

When we disagree we tell you why we disagree so you have the opportunity to show us where our objections should not be valid objections. But it seems to me that you don’t really care about trying to persuade us of anything but that you may be using the discussion to try to keep yourself in the complementarian mindset. Why do I say that? Because for the most part you have not argued for our benefit as if you really cared but the argument has been given in a way that shows disdain for our position. Thus you are unwilling to stay here for our benefit since it appears that your own benefit is what is important to you. This is the very thing that Jesus talked about when He told us to submit to one another.

What we do in the body is supposed to be for the other person’s benefit and we should care enough about them to lay aside our own welfare to serve them. Yet you have made it clear that you do not submit to anyone who does not have authority over you. You won’t submit to anyone here and you won’t submit to 99.99% of people in the body of Christ because your position is that you are only required to submit to those in authority over you. Is it possible for you to catch a glimpse of the attitude that we see coming through? If you are constantly only interested in what will benefit you and you will not lay aside what benefits you to benefit others, then how can you convince anyone that your complementarian lifestyle is anything at all that is Christlike?

Craig, for example, has admitted that his own marriage with him not “exercising authority” over his wife would be no different if he were to become an egalitarian and live out his marriage as an egalitarian. I believe him. The attitude of caring comes through Craig and he has apologized for things that others have misunderstood from his position. He went above and beyond what was expected to make sure that he would say things that don’t hurt and when he said things that we misunderstood, he was quick to apologize. I, for one, can hear Craig and hear his concerns and questions, because I can hear his love for those who are not exactly like him. Also to live out the caring lifestyle for the other person and putting them ahead of our own selves as Jesus taught us to do should make the comp marriage look exactly the same as an egalitarian one. The reason is that to believe that one had the authority to pull out “a male trump card” but to set aside that authority to work together in unity and love, is just as sacrificial a lifestyle as any egalitarian marriage. But pulling out the “male trump card” is anything but unselfish.

Think of it this way. If a husband and a wife disagree on an issue and they cannot resolve the matter and the husband takes out his “male trump card” to exercise his authority to make the final decision, what are the chances that he will use his “male trump card” to decide her way? If you are really honest with yourself, you would have to admit that the answer is zero chance. A trump card that is pulled out will always favor the male and will never sacrifice his own desires. “Soft” comps don’t need to pull out their trump cards because they genuinely believe that working out these situations for a mutual decision (and an opportunity to pray for a mutual decision) is of far more value than overriding another person’s will. Mark, I think you may be interested in my next post which will bring out a seldom heard part of the nature of God that may be key to our understanding of relationships.

I have to run now. Will be back as I can.

Mark, you are cared for no matter how offensive and combative you have been. You are our brother in Christ and we care enough to tell you the truth, but in love and with respect.