NN
2011-07-18
Cheryl,
This is tiresome – here is a simple series of unambiguous yes/no questions:
1) Would you agree that the being called Jesus existed in eternity past?
2) Would you agree that “the Christ” (as a title is synonymous) with the being called Jesus? [i.e. Would you agree that one could not use “the Christ” (capitalized singular reference) to properly mean anything other than the being called Jesus]
3) Would you agree that Jesus was properly “the Chosen One” and “the Coming One” – both titles distinctively associated with the Messiah – even before He actually took on flesh?
Now let me be clear on something – if the Christ had never taken on flesh then He could not have fulfilled His work as the Christ. If God the Son had remained a Spirit and never become incarnate then He could not rightly be called “the Christ” for He would not be. And certainly His title of the Christ must necessarily encompass both His full Deity and humanity (His death could not have payed for ours were He not fully God, He could not have died for us were He not truly man). But Scripture very properly speaks of the pre-existence of Jesus – God the Son – who is the Christ, and refers to Him in His role as “the Christ” before He actually took on flesh.
Finally
According to Ephesians 1:3, 4 did the seed of Abraham, David and Eve who is the “Christ” exist in eternity past?
It is clear that you are having trouble with atemporality (which is understandable so let me clarify a last point:
I had breakfast yesterday – it was a baked oatmeal fruit tart. So we can say that “the being who is herein referred to as NN is none other than the one who had a breakfast of a baked oatmeal fruit tart on 7/17/2011.” However, I was “NN” even before I had the fruit tart. The details of my existence do not mean that I didn’t exist before those details were known.
Let me apply this to the context of the Christ. The Tanakh clearly taught us that “The Christ” was the one who would come as God in the flesh, teach us the way of salvation, perform signs proclaiming the power and plan of God and die to pay the ransom for our sins in our place. Does this mean that Jesus was not “the Christ” before He died, or before He performed signs, etc? Absolutely not, Jesus the Christ testifies that He is the Christ long before He was actually crucified (Matt 16:16-17)
(Just for completeness & question answering:
As to your questions in #72 I do not see a Scripturally provable answer – I have my suspicions but I will rest no belief on them as I cannot prove it (and I recognize when I can’t prove something). However, they are ultimately immaterial to the case in point. Let us presume that I and Abraham etc. did not exist in “eternity past” – it is irrelevant to the pre-existence of the Bibles clear teaching that Jesus, who is the Christ, pre-existed as I have pointed out above.)
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