Patrick

Can i go back to the Trinitarian discussion between NN and Cheryl. Cheryl, here is a passage from Col 1.15ff

“?He is the image of ?the invisible God, ?the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by? him all things were created, ?in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether ?thrones or ?dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created ?through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things ?hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is ?the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the ?fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and ?through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, ?making peace ?by the blood of his cross.”

My question is this, who is the He/he/him?

Because to me, it seems like the He who is the firstborn is the same He who made all things (pre-incarnate). He is before all things (pre-incarnate) and also the head of the Church (incarnate). He is the firstborn from the dead (incarnate) has the fullness of God dwelling in him and made peace by the cross (incarnate).

So who is the He/he/him?

If we say Jesus Christ, this seems to contradict what Cheryl has said regarding the pre-incarnate Word (who cannot be called ‘the Christ’ and therefore cannot be the one who sustains the world and made it according to this text). If we say Word, it contradicts Cheryl because the head of the Church is the incarnate God/man who is obviously called ‘Jesus Christ’.

So this whole debate seems like semantics over titles. Can both sides not affirm the orthodox belief in a two natured Christology, without confounding the two, nor seperating them?