Cheryl Schatz

I am going to answer Mark here regarding his comment as “Patrick” on post #105.

My question is this, who is the He/he/him?

Because to me, it seems like the He who is the firstborn is the same He who made all things (pre-incarnate). He is before all things (pre-incarnate) and also the head of the Church (incarnate). He is the firstborn from the dead (incarnate) has the fullness of God dwelling in him and made peace by the cross (incarnate).

So who is the He/he/him?

If we say Jesus Christ, this seems to contradict what Cheryl has said regarding the pre-incarnate Word (who cannot be called ‘the Christ’ and therefore cannot be the one who sustains the world and made it according to this text). If we say Word, it contradicts Cheryl because the head of the Church is the incarnate God/man who is obviously called ‘Jesus Christ’.

So this whole debate seems like semantics over titles. Can both sides not affirm the orthodox belief in a two natured Christology, without confounding the two, nor seperating them?

In Colossians 1, the context is the person that existed prior to the incarnation and continued to exist in the incarnation as Jesus. The same “person” who is the head of the Church is the “person” who created the world. However it is never said that “the Christ” created the world as this term is in Scripture before the coming of Jesus is found only in prophecy and after the incarnation is shown as the fleshly human who is the God-man. At this point I have never read anyone claim that a fleshly human created the world so the term “the Christ” as the one who created the world is not used. It is the “person” who remains constant from eternity past to eternity future, but “the Christ” has a beginning in the flesh. The Christ is always a term of flesh therefore God is never called “The Christ” prior to the LORD of hosts emptying Himself to take on flesh to become the man Jesus Christ.

I felt that is was important to answer the question that Mark posed to me as “Patrick” even though Mark has apparently left my blog. These are very important issues and it is highly important to understand the the term Christ cannot be attached to anyone who is not flesh. The Christ is the fleshly offspring of David and The Christ in the flesh will sit on David’s throne. No spirit is ever qualified to be the seed of David and no spirit is every called “The Christ”.

I hope this helps.