Cheryl Schatz

Peter, I am going to try to reflect back on what you have said to see if I understand you correctly. I am picking out points that stand out to me as important to see if I understand. My points may also bring in the things you may have expressed in earlier posts. You said: 1. You accept much of the Scriptural argument that I made for John the Baptist, although you don’t know if John died as a believer or an unbeliever. 2. You did not agree with my Scriptural article on Judas and you do not know if Judas was a believer or an unbeliever. 3. Jesus was unhappy that one unbeliever (Judas) kept following Him. 4. Jesus spoke a particular teaching to the crowd in order that they would abandon Him and leave and it was Jesus’ will and what makes Him happy, that unbelievers would not follow Him. 5. Judas had a purpose to follow Jesus and not leave because he wanted to betray Jesus. 6. Conditional election is solely accomplished by men and not God. 7. There is a “moving categorical process” in election. I do not know what you mean by this so I am going to take a stab at it. Does this mean “individuals” move to the “category” of elect which is not no longer “individual” in nature but “corporate” thus no one is an elect individual but there is only an elect corporate body? 8. No individual is pre-elected before faith. 9. Individuals self determine to join themselves to the ELECT which is a corporate body and not individual members. 10. The condition is set by God in how an individual may come into the elect. 11. Individuals are not elected by God either before or after they respond in faith. Jesus is the only one who was elected but the corporate body is the ELECT. Jesus Himself is not the ELECT. 12. Individuals self determine whether they will join themselves 13. God does not elect anyone before or after they have faith, and individuals do not elect themselves. Thus there is no individual election at all. It is a myth promoted by Calvinists. 14. Conditional election is only applicable to a thing called the ELECT and never to individuals. 15. Any other biblical term that would be associated with the term election must be interpreted to mean corporate and not individual. Whosoever then is not “any individual” but a corporate non-individual entity. Peter, how did I do in trying to restate my understanding of your view?