Cheryl Schatz

Peter, I see that you have not answered yet on my response to point #1. You must still be considering my challenge to think outside the box. I will answer point #2 as it is similar to point #1. We can get through all of the points individually and I think that is helpful to gain an understanding on where we are both coming from. In point #2 about Judas, you wrote: I did not disagree with your article for the most part. Its just that I am somewhat agnostic as to Judas’ role in our argument. It seemed to me like you pulled him into our argument – but I am not sure why. Remember that I brought up my two articles on John the Baptist and Judas because you were my view led to Calvinistic unconditional election. Plus, Judas is specifically mentioned by Jesus at the end of John 6 in His declared reasoning why He spoke the words about people being given to Him by the Father. I believe that when Jesus teaches truth and then says why He taught the truth we need to listen to Him. Judas is a part of Jesus’ argument so it is healthy to consider Judas. You wrote: Perhaps you think if you can show that there is one unbeliever that Jesus did not try to chase away, it is therefore proof that my premise fails? We could go round and round on the question of whether or not Judas believed – but I don’t think we will get anywhere. I strongly believe that the revelation that Jesus gives is the most important in determining truth. A biblical premise must have a foundation in the revelation of God’s Word or it is just an assumption based on human reasoning. Jesus not only calls Judas a devil in John 6, but in His prayer in John 17 He states that Judas had already perished and that was before he betrayed Jesus. John 17:12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. You wrote: Does that mean he never believed in a way that could save him if he had persevered? I don’t know. It is a conjecture filled argument. Well, I believe that Jesus knew. It is said in John 6 that Jesus knew from the beginning who were unbelievers and He knew who it was who would betray Him. John 6:64 “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. If Jesus then called Judas a devil long before it entered his heart to betray Jesus, then I accept that witness. Judas perished and there is no indication that he repented of his sin and put his faith in Jesus. He just walked away and took his own life. I find that reading the revelation of Jesus in the Word of God really helps me to have a biblical argument against Calvinism that stands strong. You wrote: I don’t believe in OSAS – but perhaps you do. I do not believe that in OSAS. I will wait to hear back from you on your thoughts on these two points and then we can move on to the next one.