Charis

Thanks so much for your patience with me. I had some ideas swirling around but I have only a rudimentary greek training and rely on strong’s and the interlinear. I don’t know the conjugations of verbs and such which does impact the translation.

[quote]Cheryl wrote: ” “they” is (now I am not too sure about this one so correct me if I am wrong) women in the past? You said “have continued in” but the tense is something that is to be done at the time that Paul wrote it. That means that both “she” and “they” must do something together.”[/quote]

What if the “she” is Eve/me/woman and the “they” who continue in faith….. are women future to Paul? (which would be faithful women of the past to me- in 2007)

I think your assumption and proof Paul is addressing a problem contemporary to himself and Timothy is a valid assumption. But I wonder if there is another “level” to the scripture here (as there is with much of OT prophecy)? IOW it is personal, it applies to ME too, not just the people back then who were contempories of Paul and Timothy?

Another possibility which I wondered about is this:
Gune can be translated “wife”
THEY- the husband and wife?

My rendering:
Let the wife learn in quietness with all subjection.
I don’t permit a wife to continuously teach nor usurp authority over the husband, but to be in quietness.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve
And Adam was not deceived, but the wife being deceived has made/birthed a breach/transgression. She will be saved/made whole/restored now by means of begetting/birthing the child if THEY (husband and wife?) continue in fidelity and love and holiness with sobriety.

Since it is “she” who is made whole (not “they”) perhaps saved/made whole refers to a restoration of a womanly character, reputation, role. No longer held in contempt as “deceived” but “discerning”. Her pre-transgression and pre-curse dominion/authority and position in marriage restored. Like a reversal of the curse upon Eve

This seems to be some parallel preaching by Paul:
Gal 4:19 ¶ My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Perhaps the child-bearing in 1Tim is the child of promise rather than the child of the bondwoman? It is the woman moving from life under the law, in the Old Covenant to life under the promise, to freedom under the New Covenant.. She moves from “one born after the flesh” to “one born after the spirit”. That would mean the possibility is there for ALL women, married, single, childless

I feel as though I lived under the law! I believed what the teachers, preachers, books, translators, commentators said about women being silent, restricted, easily deceived. Their news was not good news to me, it spoke death over me. And I quenched the witness of the Spirit within which cried out at the bondage and yearned for life and freedom. I was a baby Christian for 25 years, never really growing up and learning to walk in the Spirit, still in bondage, living under the flesh, living legalistic without a deep relationship with God…. So I personally identify with the process illustrated in this verse “Cast out the bondwoman!” : moving out from a life in bondage under the law into liberty!

Gal 5:1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.