Michael Terran

My final e-mail to Gerald. I have be in dialog with him on this issue but it came to the point where I have to kick the dust of so to speak. I want to show the Love of Christ but there has to be a time when the Holy Spirit must take over an convict the person because we can talk till were blue in the face. Cheryl is doing a great job with the Trinity DVD, presenting our views and the otherside views on one DVD to show the different on what the Bible is really teaching. Once the DVD is out, the issue will be much easyer to talk about because all the Info/Creeds (History)/Scripture/Views/Quote will all be in one DVD! So I can just buy an hand out DVDs who want to know about this issue! Anyway my final e-mail to Greald is below:

Hello Gerald,

HIS QUOTE:
Nothing you have written has adequately addressed this passage. END QUOTE;

God may be all in all.” Jesus is God and can function no less in the Eternal age! Your trying to read the incarnation what God in the Flesh did in human form (Only empty himself for aliitle while) into the Eternal Trinity. Maybe you should read John 1:1, Jesus before the incarnation he was not flesh or in Human form.

HIS QUOTE:
It does not merely relate to Jesus time of earthly incarnation (incidentally, his incarnation is eternal—he never ceases to be human). END QUOTE;

Like I said before I don’t think scripture tell us that Jesus stops being human, but it appears that God will appear in his unity so that God will be all and in all.

In scripture there is a duel (Double) account of Christ! You believe that the incarnation tells use Everything about the Triune Eternal God. The icarnation only shows what God is willing to do to save his wayward Children, stooping down to our level to do it. You lose that Co-Equality of the GodHead when you do that to Jesus saying he is under the Father Eternally. To apply something that Jesus is lesser in Function etc to the Father. The problem of “equality of being with equality of function” is that the inequality of the function necessitates an inequality of being. That’s what your saying! You can’t do that.In the end there is no longer any need for the submission of the human Son since God will be all in all.

The ancient Nicene theologians argued that everything the Trinity does is done by Father, Son, and Spirit working together with one will. The three persons of the Trinity always work inseparable, for their work is always the work of the one god. Because of this unity of will, the Trinity cannot involve the eternal subordination of the Son to the Father.

Eternal subordination can only exist if the Son’s will is at least conceivably different from the Father’s. But Nicene orthodoxy says it is not. The Son’s will cannot be different from the Father’s because it is the Father’s. They have but one will as they have but one being. Otherwise they would not be one God. If there were relations of command and obedience between the Father and the Son, there would be no Trinity at all but rather three Gods.[43]

In explaining why the Bible speaks of the Son as being subordinate to the Father, the great theologian Athanasius argued that Scripture gives a “double account” of the son of God – one of his temporal and voluntary subordination in the incarnation, and the other of his eternal divine status.[44] For Athanasius, the Son is eternally one in being with the Father, temporally and voluntarily subordinate in his incarnate ministry. Such human traits, he argued, were not to be read back into the eternal Trinity.

Like Athanasius, the Cappadocian Fathers also insisted there was no economic inequality present within the Trinity. As Basil wrote: “We perceive the operation of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to be one and the same, in no respect showing differences or variation; from this identity of operation we necessarily infer the unity of nature.”[45]

Augustine also rejected the idea of an economic hierarchy within the Trinity. He claimed that the three persons of the Trinity “share the inseparable equality one substance present in divine unity.”[46] Because the three persons are one in their inner life, this means that for Augustine their works in the world are one. For this reason, it is an impossibility for Augustine to speak of the Father commanding and the Son obeying as if there could be a conflict of wills within the eternal Trinity.

John Calvin also spoke at length about the doctrine of the Trinity. Like Athanasius and Augustine before him, he concluded that Philippians 2:4-11 prescribed how scripture was to be read correctly. For him the Son’s obedience is limited to the incarnation. It is indicative of his true humanity assumed for our salvation.[47]

Much of this work is summed up in the Athanasian Creed. This creed stresses the unity of the Trinity and the equality of the persons. It ascribes equal divinity, majesty, and authority to all three persons. All three are said to be “almighty” and “Lord” (no subordination in authority; “none is before or after another” (no hierarchical ordering); and “none is greater, or less than another” (no subordination in being or nature). Thus, since the divine persons of the Trinity act with one will, there is no possibility of hierarchy-inequality in the Trinity.

Since the 1980’s, some evangelical theologians have come to the conclusion that the members of the Trinity may be economically unequal while remaining ontologically equal. This theory was put forward by George W. Knight III in his 1977 book The New Testament Teaching on the Role Relationship of Men and Women, states that the Son of God is eternally subordinated in authority to God the Father.[48]

This conclusion was used as a means of supporting the main thesis of his book: that women are permanently subordinated in authority to their husbands in the home and to male leaders in the church, despite being ontologically equal. Subscribers to this theory insist that the Father has the role of giving commands and the Son has the role of obeying them.

Your Church and You are trying to teach that the Son of God is eternally subordinated in authority to God the Father. That’s False the early Christians never believed that. I believe you are inbracing a doctrine of Demons.

I CAN SEE WHERE THIS IS GOING AND THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN CHANGE YOUR FALSE VIEWS IS THE HOLY SPIRIT, SO YOU ARE ALL IN MY PRAYERS BUT I HAVE TO KICK THE DUST OFF MY FEET NOW.

I pray your hearts will melt for Truth, Michael