Cheryl

I think we are really getting off topic here and I think it might be good to move this discussion somewhere else. I just don’t know where that somewhere else would be right now. I will have to think about it.

Anyways I think that there is a missing of the meeting of the minds. Charis, in reading your comments from other posts, I understand that you are able to read books and material and pick up things that help you and your situation even if the things you pick up are not exactly what is intended by the author. That isn’t a bad thing. Not if it is in self-help books. But when it comes to biblical doctrine and spiritual matters we really do have to know what the author means so that we can test it by scripture. If we only test what we would like them to mean then it isn’t a real genuine test.

Paula has brought out that contemplative meditation is praying using a mantra (a word or phrase that is repeated over and over) and a silencing of the mind (emptying of the mind) by repeating the mantra. That isn’t a judgment. That is a definition. Now if that definition is wrong, and the authors that you read mean something different then that, you need to show what they actually mean by their actual words.

The next thing that one needs to do is test things by scripture and not by a church or a study group or your own children. All of these things can be wrong because they are not our standard for the test. Last night I gave a scripture off the top of my head in answer to a question my son had and I gave the right scripture but I told him that it was said before the resurrection instead of after the resurrection. It was the wrong timing of that scripture because I went by my memory instead of taking time to read the scripture. I was just so busy that I didn’t take that time. So it turns out I was wrong. This morning I got an email from my son telling me that he had used what I said but then had to correct it because the time line was wrong. I felt bad, but that just goes to show you that I am just human like all of us. I make mistakes. I am not the test for truth and my son has just learned that once again. The scripture is the only test of truth for spiritual matters. Everything else is fallable.

I have heard the argument before that something cannot be wrong because my Pastor teaches it or my good friend believes it or because I read a book that teaches it. This is very, very dangerous and many people have gone to hell trusting in other people’s word and other people’s judgment instead of testing everything by God’s word. I know many sincere people who are in the cults right now because they trusted an neighbour, a friend, an elder, etc.

A few years ago I had a lady put her finger in my face and tell me who do I think I am? What right do I have to tell her that her son is wrong for teaching that it is okay to talk to the dead? If her son says it is okay, it is okay. After all he got one of the church “fathers” to read his book and the church “father” didn’t have a problem. If it is wrong, then why didn’t these other men see that it is wrong? My answer to her is that I trust the bible and the bible says that we are not allowed to speak to the dead. When it is my time to be judged, God will not ask my why I didn’t believe the pastor or the Jehovah’s Witnesses or the yogi down the street. He will ask me what I did with his word? If I cannot prove something by God’s word, then it doesn’t matter who says something contrary to that.

Anyway perhaps we should email one another and join in the discussion that way. Although these are very important things, I just don’t want to distract from such an important topic as women in ministry.

Charis, consider yourself cared for. I do not consider you a heretic. I hardly every use that word myself. I think that it has to be used very carefully. Heretics are to be thrown out of the church. False teachers are to be corrected and taught the truth. Heretics are deliberate deceivers who are not capable of being taught the truth. This was my point in 1 Timothy 1. Paul wanted those who were deceived to know the truth. The ones who were deliberately distorting the resurrection, Paul gave them over to Satan to be “taught” not to blaspheme. This is the reason that we know that “a woman” in 1 Timothy 2 was not a deliberate heretic. Paul said that she was to learn. The fact is that you cannot teach a heretic and they simply will not learn. So please consider things that you have heard here to be words of wisdom not words of condemnation.

I dearly love those in the body of Christ who have been mislead especially about the women’s issue. Is the husband the “priest” of the home? Scripture does not tell us this and this would contradict scripture since all believers are in this kingdom of priests. There is no hierarchy in the priesthood of the believer so there can be no priest over another priest.