Kerryn

Hello Sue (re #17)

i sure agree with your statement that we ‘are’ male and female rather than it being a definitive aspect of us being made in the image of God…after all, the animals and plants have gender, right?! i just think that Gen 1:27 is scripture (God) telling us that male and female are equal before God. How wonderful to get that ‘established’ at the beginning of time!

For some (complementarians) it ‘all’ seems to link together into one big ‘connected’ (circular!) argument :
God ‘is’ male (or at least ‘more male’ than female’?! because he is called ‘Father’ and ‘Son’), therefore males have some kind of ‘generic’ authority/responsibility/ability ‘over’ females… therefore women must be restricted to be ‘under’ this authority in the home / in ministry – regardless of their actual personal ability/character/position in Christ….
recently (since the late 70’s) the whole thing about the subordination of the Son to the Father has been used by some to support the other doctrines above…

If God is ‘male’ and our gender is ‘eternal’ – based on the claim that the Son is eternally subordinate to the Father …. and therefore women are generically to be subordinate to men…. what do we make of the fact that all believers (male and female) are going to be ‘married’ to the Son in heaven… ?
(Jesus said there is to be no marriage in heaven b/w humans mt 22:30 …because we are to be married to ‘him’ Rev 19:7-9)
If gender is going to continue in heaven, it sounds very much against the concept in scripture that marriage is between ‘a man’ and ‘a woman’…

It just doesn’t hold together for me… for me it seems that gender cannot be an essentially ‘spiritual’ thing – rather it’s just how we are here on earth…necessary for mulitplication (fulfilling our mandate Gen 1:28!) and earthly marriage is a forshadow of what God intended for us with Christ in heaven as his Bride… (As Paul says in Eph 5 – the marriage b/w Christ and his Church is a profound mystery – illustrated in some humble way through human marriage). There is no male and female (in a spiritual sense) in Christ (Gal 3:28).

Anyone disagree? Agree?

it seems to me that each of these comp ‘arguments’ above are built upon each other and round and round they go…it’s a bit like a bowl of spaghetti all mixed together into one big supposedly ‘convincing’ dish – but if they are individually assessed scripturally on their own merits they fall way short of being convincing (in my humble opinion!)
i guess when it’s all said in a rush ‘together’ the argument seems stronger and more comprehensive, but when ‘dismantled’ and studied at each level it seems to me to fall apart.
as someone who currently finds myself to be sitting in the egalitarian side of the fence , I am trying to learn how to discuss the egal-comp stuff with those who are on the ‘other side’ in a helpful way… so much emotion seems to come into play… my approach at the moment is to try and ‘break’ the argument down in to these (supposedly interrelated) individual claims and assess them for their ‘own’ merits… i am praying it will help!

(I sure can ramble on – sorry! Just processing my own thoughts again I guess!)

(-: kerryn