Don Johnson

1Co 15:3

1Co 15:4

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1Co 15:5

And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

1Co 15:6

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Co 15:7

After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1Co 15:8

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Here is how I understand this, the named James is not one of the 12, he is one of the brothers of Jesus that became a believer after the ascension and became the leader of the Jerusalem church in Acts 15.  It is not James one of the 12 as that one is already included in the 12.

There are different groups discussed, they are not all distinct but some are.  Apostles are listed separate from the 12 and given later, my understanding is that these are those apostles at the time that were NOT the 12, as the 12 apostles were already mentioned.

Paul is giving an order, but it is not every data point; yes Thomas was not there at first time with the 10 of the 12, but did see Jesus soon after.
So the question is whether Matthias saw Jesus, my assumption is he was certainly one of the 500, being a disciple from the beginning.  The question is what did Paul mean by the 12.  I agree it is possible he meant the 11, but it is also possible he meant the 12 at the time of his writing 1 Cor and the way the whole church understood the term, that is, to include Matthias.

In any case, it is clear (to me) that Paul when he wrote 1 Cor did not consider himself one of the 12.

2. Paul is one of the apostles.

2Co 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

2Co 11:5

Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.

He is competing with false teachers.  I am not sure why you refer to Gill, the immediate context of 2 Cor 11:4-5 seems clear to me.

FWIIW, some missionaries today claim miracles.

3. Paul is making his special claims to counter the false super-apostles.  He wants the Corinthians to make the right decision.

The Bible says believers will do GREATER things.

I do not see Paul as a secondary apostle, he is my hero, but that does not mean he is one of the 12.

4. I do not follow your argument here, so I will defer to concentrate on discussing the above and then get back to this once the above are discussed.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Co 15:4

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1Co 15:5

And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

1Co 15:6

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Co 15:7

After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1Co 15:8

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Here is how I understand this, the named James is not one of the 12, he is one of the brothers of Jesus that became a believer after the ascension and became the leader of the Jerusalem church in Acts 15.  It is not James one of the 12 as that one is already included in the 12.

There are different groups discussed, they are not all distinct but some are.  Apostles are listed separate from the 12 and given later, my understanding is that these are those apostles at the time that were NOT the 12, as the 12 apostles were already mentioned.

Paul is giving an order, but it is not every data point; yes Thomas was not there at first time with the 10 of the 12, but did see Jesus soon after.
So the question is whether Matthias saw Jesus, my assumption is he was certainly one of the 500, being a disciple from the beginning.  The question is what did Paul mean by the 12.  I agree it is possible he meant the 11, but it is also possible he meant the 12 at the time of his writing 1 Cor and the way the whole church understood the term, that is, to include Matthias.

In any case, it is clear (to me) that Paul when he wrote 1 Cor did not consider himself one of the 12.

2. Paul is one of the apostles.

2Co 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

2Co 11:5

Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.

He is competing with false teachers.  I am not sure why you refer to Gill, the immediate context of 2 Cor 11:4-5 seems clear to me.

FWIIW, some missionaries today claim miracles.

3. Paul is making his special claims to counter the false super-apostles.  He wants the Corinthians to make the right decision.

The Bible says believers will do GREATER things.

I do not see Paul as a secondary apostle, he is my hero, but that does not mean he is one of the 12.

4. I do not follow your argument here, so I will defer to concentrate on discussing the above and then get back to this once the above are discussed.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Co 15:4

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1Co 15:5

And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

1Co 15:6

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1Co 15:7

After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

1Co 15:8

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Here is how I understand this, the named James is not one of the 12, he is one of the brothers of Jesus that became a believer after the ascension and became the leader of the Jerusalem church in Acts 15.  It is not James one of the 12 as that one is already included in the 12.

There are different groups discussed, they are not all distinct but some are.  Apostles are listed separate from the 12 and given later, my understanding is that these are those apostles at the time that were NOT the 12, as the 12 apostles were already mentioned.

Paul is giving an order, but it is not every data point; yes Thomas was not there at first time with the 10 of the 12, but did see Jesus soon after.
So the question is whether Matthias saw Jesus, my assumption is he was certainly one of the 500, being a disciple from the beginning.  The question is what did Paul mean by the 12.  I agree it is possible he meant the 11, but it is also possible he meant the 12 at the time of his writing 1 Cor and the way the whole church understood the term, that is, to include Matthias.

In any case, it is clear (to me) that Paul when he wrote 1 Cor did not consider himself one of the 12.

2. Paul is one of the apostles.

2Co 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

2Co 11:5

Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.

He is competing with false teachers.  I am not sure why you refer to Gill, the immediate context of 2 Cor 11:4-5 seems clear to me.

FWIIW, some missionaries today claim miracles.

3. Paul is making his special claims to counter the false super-apostles.  He wants the Corinthians to make the right decision.

The Bible says believers will do GREATER things.

I do not see Paul as a secondary apostle, he is my hero, but that does not mean he is one of the 12.

4. I do not follow your argument here, so I will defer to concentrate on discussing the above and then get back to this once the above are discussed.