Paula

Lin, What I base this on is Heb. 12:7-8:

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate children at all.

Would God discipline children who are not his? I don’t believe he would. So if God disciplines someone, they must belong to him. Therefore, since Hym and Alex were handed over to Satan for the purpose of discipline (being taught a lesson), then they must have been believers.

I also base it on the very carnal Christians in Corinth. Paul strongly reprimanded them for their immaturity, which was characterized by wallowing in sin, factions, and being easily led astray. The Galatians had turned back to legalism and ritual.

So there can be carnal Christians; the question is, where does carnal leave off and lost begin? We simply can’t always know. But anyone who seems to have a firm conviction that Jesus is God in the flesh, who died and rose again, and trusts Him completely for salvation, yet “has no works” (Rom. 4:5), will have to be considered saved. It’s the confession of faith that we have to go on.

If all believers are to have a minimum degree of works, where is the line drawn? What do the NT writers tell us?

Now for Christian leaders, that’s a different ballgame. James says “we who teach will be judged more strictly” (3:1). Paul spelled out the qualifications for leaders, and surely they above all should exhibit the fruit of the spirit. They are to be examples and role models, tested and approved. 1 Tim. 5:19-21 says,

Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

So I would say that sinning leaders should be divested of any positions they may hold and put under the leadership of teachers who walk in the Spirit and “rightly divide the Word”.

Personally, I believe scripture teaches against “eternal insecurity”. From there I have to conclude that anyone who appeared to have been a believer and then wallows in sin openly and willingly without repentance was never saved in the first place. Knowing what a shallow, feel-good “gospel” has been preached for many decades now, if not centuries, I have no doubt that many who play the church game have never actually accepted Jesus according to scripture.

But here’s the bottom line: Regardless of our theories, we must always expect believers to display growth, to increase in holiness. Those who don’t must be lovingly corrected, and those who refuse correction must be expelled from fellowship. Their eternal fate is known only to them and God, but we can only judge by confession and expel on the basis of rebellion. We must not look up to people who show their immaturity by wallowing in sin, or lacking love, or playing little gods over others. The issue is leadership and fellowship. We are not God and cannot go beyond what we can see and hear. Fellowship is not to be accepted from those who walk in sin, and leaders are to be held to a much stricter standard than followers.

I too cannot fathom walking in sin while claiming Christ. But I am not qualified to pronounce judgment on someone who claims the true gospel as a personal conviction. Spiritual infants are alive but cannot be expected to show maturity. If they never grow, something is terribly wrong, and it is the responsibility of the mature to see to it that they are properly guided. The churches have failed miserably in this regard. Yet if anyone refuses instruction and loves their sin, they must be disfellowshipped.

Regarding the word transliterated “blaspheme”, the meaning is to speak false testimony, to slander. The two Paul was writing about were lying about others.

Anyway, that’s all just how I see it.