57 Gengwall,

I have seen some pretty wild interpretations of Genesis 3:16b in my day. Frankly, the one by Ortlund, while oppressive to women, is not the worst of its kind. But I do want to point out that conservative males are not universally in the patriarchal camp, nor are all egalitarian ideas necessarily “liberal” (at least not in fact, although they are to patriarchal thinkers).

This is good to remember. It is sometimes easy to want to put people into boxes. Creating boxes where we can place people in is just an easy way to dismiss them and not give their view the time of day. Thanks for reminding us that there are no one-size-fits-all boxes even in the patriarchal camp.

I don’t know if you are familiar with Dr. Robert Lewis. He is pastor at large of Fellowship Bible Church in Little Rock. </blockquote
No I am not familiar with Dr. Lewis or his teachings.

You may find it interesting what his views are on Genesis 3 (I know this because I have attended his Men’s Fraternity bible studies for the last 4 years). You will be happy to learn that he holds a similar view to Cheryl’s “Unfaithful Watchman” in regards to Adam’s dismal performance in the garden.

I like this guy already!

He has little regard for patriarchy, calling its promotion a “moral failure” on the part of men.

This is very refreshing coming from the conservative man camp.

Take heart ladies – not every “conservative”, and dare I say not even every “patriarch” (we should explore that word some time), is a woman oppressing, wife dominating fiend.

We should explore what good there is in “patriarch” vs “patriarchy”. I will bookmark that thought in my mind.