Paula

No Chris, your insults will not deter me from holding you to supporting your assertions. I have been challenging your premises from the start and you just keep re-asserting them.

An example of your own case of misrepresenting or poor reading comprehension is in your statement about Paul’s proscription in the OT. The whole point of contention is NOT whether he’s doing that, but why. You claim that his merely citing creation order is proof of your interpretation of hierarchy, yet I have shown that the context of Genesis to which he refers has nothing whatsoever related to authority between Adam and Eve. She had nothing to usurp, and scripture never says she lusted after anything of Adam’s. And the context of 1 Tim. 2 is clearly about deception, and this deception, per Paul’s explicit statements, is due to Eve’s being created last.

And you have in fact been arguing for exactly what you now say you aren’t, namely, that Paul’s statements in 1 Tim. 2 are applicable for all women for all time, because Paul refers to creation order. If you’re trying to make some other argument, you have yet to begin. You expressly stated earlier that Christian men today are to restrain Christian women today to keep them out of deception. So you take Paul’s words to Timothy as about men ruling over women even today, 2000 years later.

Ask yourself this question: If Paul wanted to appeal to the OT to bolster a new command, one never seen before, then why doesn’t Genesis contain the necessary language to indicate the authority you allege existed between Adam and Eve before the fall? It is not there, as I thoroughly explained. No one before Paul ever cited Genesis as making such a statement, and since Paul’s reason for citing it is the very point of contention, asserting that point in your premises will never win the argument no matter how often you repeat it.

The context of 1 Timothy is deception and how Timothy must stop it. Good reading comprehension makes this clear. And good reading comprehension of Genesis 1-3 easily sees that Eve never sinned until after she was beguiled, all while her alleged “covering” stood by and watched like a coward or a traitor.

You have muddled the order of events, relied on special pleading to make only the chronology between Adam and Eve have significance related to hierarchy, invented a “family order” when only one human existed, and ignored the context of Paul’s letter to Timothy. Again, I’m not impressed, and though that hardly matters to you, here’s something that should.

Jesus laid down his power and position to serve His bride (Phil. 2:5-11). He left His Father’s house to redeem us, went back to “prepare a place”, and left us the Spirit to distribute gifts as He wills– NOT as MAN wills. Before He made that sacrifice, Jesus told His disciples “not so among you”. Do you remember that? Do you think it doesn’t apply to you? How then can you put yourself above any of your spiritual siblings? You cannot say that the left hand must ask the right hand’s permission to act (woman must go through man); you cannot put yourself between any woman and her Savior, for that would be idolatry; you cannot rise above your Master by claiming preeminence over half His Body.

What kind of Christian wants to rule over another, and thinks God is now a “respecter of persons”? What kind of Christian thinks God now “looks on the outside”? What kind of Christian seeks power and control? I’ll tell you what kind: the proud kind, proud of his flesh. But remember this: “many who are last will be first, and the first will be last”. You want first place in this life? Fine. Take it. All I want is to serve Jesus and His people, to free the oppressed, to get truth out of the Bible instead of trying to over-write it with my own assertions. I want to use my spiritual gifts and talk directly with my Savior, without a human priest, without worldly ambition.

Want to be great in the kingdom of God? Be the lowest slave. That’s what Christianity is all about.