Cheryl Schatz

Hi Mark,
You said:

Father, Son and Spirit are all equally God but perform different functions.

While the incarnation was a difference in function since only the Son became human, I would like to challenge your view of different functions. The Scriptures reveal a unity rather than different “functions”. I ask you whose function it was to be “Creator”? Who functioned as “Savior” since the Father also called Himself Savior? Who raised Jesus from the dead?

The “role” issue is something that is commonly appealed to by complementarians but it isn’t Biblically supported since all worked together on everything.

The problem is people think ’subordinate’ means ‘lesser being’, which is not true because we know that Jesus and the Father are one in substance.

The Bible never describes the Word of God in the Trinity as subordinate. This is unsupportable and is Biblically wrong. Jesus is equal in Will, in Authority and in Power.

On the night before he was crucified, Jesus was pained with anguish because of what was before him, then he prayed (Mt 26:39) not my will but yours. Jesus was subordinate to the Fathers will, but was obedient because he was part of the Triune God

Obedience was not a part of His character as God. It was a part of His humanity. If it was part of God, then please show obedience of the Word to a command in the OT. You see there is no need for obedience in the Godhead because all have the same Will. There is no difference of Will that would make one command the other or take authority over another Person of the Godhead.

This is the traditional, orthodox view of the Trinity expressed throughout Church history.

No this is not the traditional orthodox view of the Trinity. There is no subordination in the nature of the Trinity. Only equality is emphasized in the Godhead.

The OT is a more difficult question obviously because the revelation of God the Son had not come in salvation history.

My portion of the DVD “The Trinity Eternity Past to Eternity Future” traces Jesus as The LORD of Hosts in the OT. It is an amazing thing to see what the LORD of Hosts does, how He uses His Will and there is not a single sense of subordination or less authority or will at all. I would recommend that you get a copy of the DVD to be challenged on who Jesus is in the Trinity.

It is clear to see the Trinity in the OT, but i think it is probably impossible to show His subordiantion there because the Jewish writers would not have had a full understanding of the Triune God.

Although the Jewish writers were used to write the Bible, they were not the Author. God used writers to record things that they didn’t understand themselves. To think that God was unable to express a revelation of who He is as God because He used human authors is a really bad idea. (Did I express this okay? That it is your idea that is bad, not your motive or you yourself?)

When understanding the doctrine of the Trinity the bible as a whole must be envisaged. The primary theology for the Trinity is in the NT.

But what you have missed is that the humanity of Jesus cannot be used to teach what He is in the Trinity. You must go to the OT to see the full complete Deity of Christ without His humanity.

Perhaps someone could outline how the Father is the ’source’ of the son more clearly.

God is the “source” of the Son as the Son came down from Heaven and God provided a body for Him. As the Son came out from God, the starting point is God. Just as the “head” as of the river is the source of the river, so God is the source or starting point of the Son.

I have to run now as I am still on the road. I will answer the other posts that you commented on when I have time to get back on the computer.

Blessings!
Cheryl