Mark
2009-10-14
Cheryl, thaankyou for your questions and answers,
I see the garden as the place where God dwells with man- i think we would agree with this. I also agree that it was Adam and Eves home not God’s, for God is not physical, nor is he bound physically. But what i do see is the resemblance of this situation in the tabernacle, the temple, in Christ. The garden was where God dwelled unhindered by sin with mankind. Except God was bound in the temple etc because of hi holiness and our sinfulness.
I don’t dispute you in regards to the tree of life needing to be protected, but in the bigger scheme, as with most scholars, what i am suggesting is consistent. As such Eve, as a sinner, was most definately a threat to the tree. If i understand sin to be a total corruption of our original nature, and complete seperateness from God, then i can’t agree to your interpretation. Regardless of whether her sin was intentional or not, she was still a sinner. Sin corrupts us, so she was most definately a threat.
“Now that Eve knew the truth of her deception, there would be no problem of her obedience in obeying God’s command to not eat from the tree of life should she have stayed in the garden”
Cheryl do you think that as sinners we can be obedient to God? Just because Eve supposedly ‘knew’ her deception, does that negate what sin does to us? Sin makes us to everything contrary to what we should be doing. It is only by the grace of God, and HIs spirit that we are able to obey Him- it has absolutely nothing to do with us. I have emense trouble agreeing with your understanding of sin and its effects.
“There was no need to banish Eve unless she had a rebellious nature. The fact is that she did not. ”
Is sin not precisely a rebelilon against a Holy God. She 100% DID have a rebelious nature. If she didn’t then she wouldn’t have been a sinner. Even if you want to claim she didn’t rebel before the fall, it is very incosistent with the nature of sin to claim that as a sinner she was not rebellious.
“The rebellion did not come into the world through the man and the woman. Scripture is very specific that it came through the man alone.”
I agree with you on this, but not in the way you might think. I agree that scripture does say that sin came through ‘one man’. This is indeed supportive of the comp position also which holds the man as the leader. So guess you read it very literally, and i see it as metaphoric in relation to his role as the man.
“Where do you get this from? God has always showed Himself to sinful man since all men are now sinful since the fall. The Scriptures teach us about many humans who walked with God. God did not stay away from them just because they were sinful. That may be a tradition, but it isn’t the truth of Scripture.”
God has never walked with sinful man in ALL hs glory as with Eden. What is Ezekiel adn Isaiah’s response to seeing the ‘likeness’ of God in their visions. If God as a holy God, and man as sinful can walk hand in hand in the way you seem to be suggesting, then God is indeed not Holy and man not sinful.
“God says not one word about Adam being the leader. If this was true, then please tell me why Adam was not called to account to speak for Eve? Surely if we can add to the Scriptures that Adam was the “leader” then why did Adam not act as a leader and why did God not hold him accountable for anything other than his own sin? This is a very important point and needs to be addressed.”
Cheryl this does indeed need to be addressed. It needs to be addressed because you don’t seem to understand the comp position. Please show me where any true comp claims that the man is resposible for the woman’s sin. We don’t hold to that. Eve is accountable for her sin like Adam. Adam is also held accountable for his lack of leadership in this situation. That is why he is the primary person dealt with in the Genesis account.
” He gives a prophesy to the serpent but related to the woman that her seed he will be destroyed. ”
So your happy Cheryl to throw what is said to the serpent to relate to Eve, but not happy to understand what is said to Eve in relation to the serpent? Seems like you are picking and choosing.
“If Adam and Eve’s sin was the same, then there cannot be any reasonable explanation for God treating them differently. ”
Of course there can be- they are different people with different roles. Take the Kings as an example. They were equally guilty of sin as the Jews, however their ‘role’ as leader made them particular responsible for God’s judgement upon the nation. Your argument does not hold up.
I think we need to keep in mind, why this was written, who it was written for, the historical context it was written in, before taking a direct literal rendering of the passage. None the less Cheryl, you continue to be challenging and i hope your trip goes well.
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