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TL

TL

2009-10-15

Hey Mark, generally misconceptions take a while to clear up. That’s my experience. 🙂

”I thought that i made it clear that my understanding of Adam’s leadership stems from what i understand that to be as expressed throughout all of scripture.”

My understanding of the basic equality between men and women, I believe to be expressed throughout all of Scripture as well. I am interested In what things you see that say to you God has expressed a requirement for men only to lead and women to follow men. One problem I have with that right off, is that God is not facetious. If God makes a rule of righteousness, He does not hide it but makes it plain so that His people can follow it and achieve righteousness.

”If we talk this literary it must be false. Because we know in Genesis that Eve was indeed the first to sin, so sin actually entered the world first through Eve. ……..See i think it makes perfect sense if we understand Adam is recognized as the one responsible for sin entering the world, although Eve indeed did sin first. Adam is responsible for the act of sin entering the world, not Eve’s specific sin. I’m interested how an egalitarian would reconcile this?”

This is not something that we get to decide. True, that Adam is not responsible for Eve’s sin. The serpent is responsible for Eve sinning, but not for her specific sin. Hosea 6:7 says that Adam dealt treacherously with God. In the Hebrew, the part that NKJV interprets as being unfaithful to God, the Hebrew uses the word treacherous in God. So, we know that Adam’s choice being that he was not deceived, was treacherous toward God. Now that is concrete evidence that sinning deliberately (with full knowledge as Adam had) is different and in God’s eyes is treacherous. In Hosea, Gilead is portrayed as full of people that deliberately commit evil. That is what Adam did. We don’t know why. Not knowing why, many have tried to soft peddle it. Eve, on the other hand, was tricked into making that choice to disobey by the treacherousness of the serpent. They both sinned and both suffered death, the promised result of disobedience of eating forbidden fruit. But the delivery was different. All sin is not the same. Yet all sin will reap the results of that sin.

1 Tim. 1: 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy,….”

Here we have Paul telling Timothy that he, Paul, obtained mercy because his sinning was ignorant (not aware) and in unbelief. But of course we know that he still reaped the just rewards for his sins. But God was merciful toward him because he was not fully aware of what he was doing. Good thing too because Paul had been persecuting God’s servants.

Eve’s sin fell in the same category. Because she was deceived by the most clever of all creatures, she was not fully aware of what she was doing even though she did it. This did not take away the consequence of the sin, but it did allow God to have some mercy upon her. And, it laid the responsibility for the sin passing into all humanity upon Adam who was not deceived and was completely and fully aware of what he was doing. He dealt treacherously with God. That is why Scripture says that it was through Adam that sin passed into the world. It came through his DELIBERATE FULLY AWARE treacherous treatment of God.

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Original Article

Wayne Grudem Part 2

2009-07-05