Frank

Well, Cheryl, I think you are doing a good job in accurately explaining what the Scriptures actually teach about women teaching and preaching, while pointing out the contradictions in his own position, and doing so with gentleness and respect. I made the following comments on his site, which support and elaborate on what you have already said:

Mike:

I assume from what you have said that, like Cheryl and myself, you believe that since the OT prophets and NT apostles wrote Scripture under the divine guidance and superintendance of the Holy Spirit, and therefore there cannot by any contradictions in what it teaches regarding our ministerial duties and responsibilities in the Body of Christ, correct? And according to you, in 1 Tim. 2:12, Paul absolutely forbids women teaching or preaching, whatever the form it is given,in a mixed audience during worship, correct? Then how do you square that with the teaching gave to the entire church, leaders and congregation, in Colossians 3:15-17? The Apostle writes as follows:

15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdeom through psalms, hymns and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him(Col. 3:15-17, TNIV).

In these three verses, we find a summary of the teaching Paul earlier gave regarding congregational prayer and prophesying in 1 Cor. 12-14. The focus here is on “the message of Christ,” which is to be communicated by psalms, hymns and songs from the Spirit, with the purpose being to “teach and admonish one another with all wisdom” (v.16). This text in Colossians clearly indicates that in the NT house churches, psalms, hymns and songs not only praise and thank God for our great redemption in Christ, but also served a didatic or teaching function for all participating in the worship service. And regarding these “prophecies,” THE EXPOSITOR’S GREEK TESTAMENT states: “The precise distinctions intended are not certain, and perhaps they should not be sharply drawn. The meaning is, whatever kind of song it may be, let it be made the vehicle of religious instruction and admonition”(Vol. 3, p.541). Like 1 Cor. 12-14, this text not only assumes that both men and women will proclaim or prophesy the message of Christ together during worship, following the directives of 1 Cor 14 which were normative for all the Pauline churches; but it also expects and encourages them to do so, so as to instruct and admonish one another, resulting in everyone becoming wiser in the mysteries of Christ and his Gospel.

Now, Mike, if Paul absolutely forbids women,at all times and in all forms,to proclaim God’s Word to mixed audiences during worship in 1 Tim. 2:12, does this not contradict what he here commands them to do in Col. 3:15-17? If one thinks about this critically and logically, one must come to one of these conclusions:
1. Paul, when he wrote 1 Tim. 2:12,had forgotten what he wrote in Col. 3:15-17,and did not realize that he had written two texts that contradict each other. Well, liberals might believe this could have happened; but do we really think Paul was so irrational or forgetful that if somenone had pointed this out to him, he would not have recognized it as an apparent contradiction, and made some clarfying statement,like he did in 1 Cor. 5:9-11?
2. As you and Wayne Grudem argue, Paul made a distinction between prophecy and teaching, the first which he permitted women to do in 1Cor. 12-14,but forbade them to do the latter in 1 Tim. 2:12. Well, the problem with this argument is that several NT scholars-e.g., David Hill, Earle E. Ellis, and Kevin Giles-who have studied this subject in detail, have demonstrated that the NT does not make the rigid distinction between teaching and preaching(prophecy)that we moderns make. After all while Jesus is often called a prophet, the NT primarily focuses on his teaching and preaching. And even prophets like Silas and Judas preach to and exhort congregations on the basis of God’s Word revealed to the Jerusalem church (Acts 15),rather than on new revelations they themselves have received. So denying women the right to proclaim God’s Word in the congregation on this basis of a supposed distinction between teaching and prophecy is totally unwarranted.
3. Paul’s instructions in 1 Cor.12-14 and Col. 3:15-17 are normal guidelines and regulations regarding how men and women are to instruct, encourage and build up one another in the Lord during worship. But, as determined by its context, 1 Tim. 2:12 is a special ruling, addressed to an unusual or abnormal situation that existed in the Ephesian church. This being the case, 1 Tim. 2:12, because it is not part of Paul’s normal guidelines and regulations for worship and ministry,cannot be used as a regulatory law to deny women’s right to full participation in worship and ministry today.
So, Mike, which of these three conclusions is the most biblical and logical for us to hold, if we truly believe Paul wrote under the guidance and supervision of the Holy Spirit, and if we also believe that there can be no contradictions in the true teachings of Scripture?

I made two attempts to post these comments to Mike’s site earlier today. So I hope they went through. My only regret is that I can’t think of a good way to make clear to him that 1 Tim. 2:12 is not the strong tower and refuge for the complimentarianism that he believes it to be.