A. Amos Love

Frank

You wrote;
“I hope that in my last comment, I did not give anyone the impression that either Dr. Norrington or myself deny the NT teaches that there are leaders in the church, both men and women, designated as “elders” and whose primary functions are described as “overseers” (episkopoi) and “servants, ministers” (diakanoi).”

“Whatever local leaders were required to do,
Christians were to obey them and submit to them.”

I could be wrong.
You seem to be saying, in the church, “elders” are “leaders”
and we are to obey them. Yes?

Then you say;
We don’t have to obey elders/leaders who “practice heresy”
or if they’re “out of line with the scriptures and the Holy Spirit.”

“such leaders are to be respected and honored. But those who teach and practice heresy, who deny the gifting and calling of other Christians, and refuse to train and equip them to be competent ministers of Christ–to such leaders, our response must be, “No! In this case, you are out of line with Scripture and the Holy Spirit.”

Might sound strange;
I’ve never met an “elder/leader” who fulfilled the qualifications of an elder.
Never found one “elder/leader” who made it past the first one, “blameless.”

Bishops “must be” blameless…

Blameless… How important is this word?

Webster’s – Without fault; innocent; guiltless; not meriting censure.

Synonyms – faultless, guiltless, innocent, irreproachable, spotless, unblemished.

Computer – that cannot be reprehended,
(cannot be, rebukable, reprovable, cannot find fault)
not open to censure, irreproachable.

Strongs #423 – anepileptos – inculpable, blameless, unrebukeable.

How many, who honestly examine themselves,
seriously considering these qualifications,
can see themselves as “blameless,” without fault
and thus qualify to be an overseer, elder?

And if you can see yourself as “blameless;”
Is that pride? And no longer without fault?

This is only one of many qualifications.

The Bible talks about bishops and elders.
And qualifications for bishops and elders.
Can you have one without the other?

So, according to what you said, there is a troubling question.

If someone who says, or thinks, they are an “elder/leader”
and does not fulfill the qualifications of an “elder/leader;”

Wouldn’t that be someone who is “practicing heresy?”
And wouldn’t that be someone who is “out of line with scripture?”

And someone we can say “no” to? Ignore as irelevant?

Leaders = lording it over = abuse = always

Peace and grace.