Dave

Mark said, “It seems like people are skirting around the issue that kephale is understood to mean authority both in biblical and other ancient greek literature. Is this a fair presumption?”

No, I don’t think so. I believe that most people in this conversation have very much grappled with this issue. I think people have been very clear about this. I am a bit confused about where this conversation is (not) going! If I can make some observations…

1 – Mark has claimed more than once that we have not understood comp arguments, and yet many of us here are recovering comps! We understand very well what “true” comps believe and can point to examples, and have done. Saying we have not understood where they are coming from is not good enough. Please show us exactly where and how we have not understood Piper and Grudem etc.
2 – Why are we waiting to have everybody agree on the different uses of kephale when the important thing is how Paul is using it in the texts in question? Do we want to have a conversation about kephale in the specific texts or not? The essay I linked above talks about how the Bible uses words such as water and fire with essentially different meanings. Fire, for example, can be a metaphor for judgement, trials or the Holy Spirit! The context is the key, not what was happening 500 years later in extra-biblical writing.
3 – Kay has raised a very good question that has gone un-answered. How is “manhood” defined? I understand the way you were using the term Mark, but how do you define it in the context of this discussion so that Kay can have an answer to her question. I get the feeling she is not going to let go of this one!

It seems to me that we are not actually moving forward into having a meaningful discussion, but rather playing around the edges. Perhaps this is a test of my patience? In which case I have failed 🙁