Mark

Dear Egalitarian friends,

i apologise for the slow respose to your questions/statemants/interpretations. Its been a bit busy atm, and looks like it will be this way for the next few weeks. I will try my hardest to find time to continue the discussion, but forgive me if i am unable to continue a day to day discussion at present.

Let me first comment back to Dave. I guess i will just response according to your dot points.
1. I am glad we agree
2. The creation order I am referring to is verses 7-10
3. 1Co 11:4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,
1Co 11:5 but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.
I understand that the kephale that is being dishonoured is the head in authority above the person i.e Christ for the man, the man for the wife. How do you understand this Dave?
4. The context most definitely does support this view of ‘head’. In terms of evidence I will right up a small paper when I get a chance to wade through it all and post it soon, as I think TL and/or gengwell also asked the same thing.
5. We agree again! As far as Lin’s comments regarding this being ‘simple’ as relating to chapter 6, my only comment can be- it is most definitely not simple. Scholars on both sides recognise this, I suggest Lin for you to have a better look at the so called simplicity of this issue.
6. You seem to be agreeing that there is a creation order addressed before verse 10, therefore I am confused why you asked me to point you to where the creation order is in point 2? Dave I don’t dismiss what verse 11 and 12 bring. I didn’t think I did that, maybe I wasn’t clear. This is consistent with what we saw in Gen, namely its not good to be alone, we need each other, God created us for each other. But this doesn’t negate the creation order of 7-10, it supports it. How do you reconcile the creation order with your view?
7. I think I answered this above for you.

Finally Dave, I’m abit unsure of how you translate kephale. Do you understand it to be mouth, source, pre-eminate, origin…???? These meanings draw from different contexts in which the word is used. It seems like egalitarians are claiming almost any known meaning of the word which is not authority. How we translate it relates to its literary context of which im sure we agree. Therefore the context of mouth is different to the context of source, to the context of pre-eminence to the context of authority to the context of origin. However many people are using them interchangeably. Which do you hold to?

Also Lin you made this comment
“But it is not in order! Besides, created order means nothing. I could easily argue that Eve was more important because she was created last and called an Ezer like God is called. Created order means nothing because God many times did not use the FIRST born son. Created order means nothing because it implies that creation materials are important. From where do YOU, as a male get the IMage of God? From dirt?”

This is precisely the issue I have. Egalitarians argue that there is no creation order in Gen, then when we look at this passage in Corinthians the answer changes from’ no creation order’ to ‘so what’, it ‘means nothing’ using your own words. It is inconsistent, do you believe there is a creation order but it means nothing, or do you believe there is no creation order?