Lin

” but I have never been one to get too caught up trying to determine what historical figures have said. I was told at Bible College that we stand on the shoulders of giants, but I was always concerned that I was standing on the shoulders of idiots! Therefore I learnt what I could from historical figures but I was primarily concerned about what I believed.”

Dave, I totally agree!

One reason why I quote Chrysostom now and then is because he is one source that said a husband should not ‘authenteo’ his wife. Which just goes to show why comps cannot use 1 Tim 2 as a proof text for women teaching men because it ‘usurps their authority’. That is not what authenteo means. And Chrysostom was definitely not into equality for women! But he said a husband should not authenteo his wife!

“Is this aimed at my view or Chrysostom’s?”

Mark, Oh no, not at all. It is just that 1 Corin 11 is used as a foundational proof text by many comps for so many things! Some teach that it proves that woman are made in the ‘indirect image of God’ (Ware). Others teach it proves that woman must have an authority (even though symbol of was added to the text and it really says taht women have authority over themselves). Others use it to try and teach ESS. (Ware)

All this from a passage on headcoverings! And how many churches make women cover these days? Yet, they want us to believe what is taught there is not cultural! (shaking head)

” IF you think what i have said lessens Jesus, please show me where. I uphold Christ as sovereign Lord of my life.”

If Jesus Christ, as Lord of Hosts, in the OT and into eternity is in a lesser chain of command position within the Trinity (outside the Incarnation) then that calls into question what happened on the cross. Did he willlingly make Himself a sacrifice or was He obeying a command? Did He willingly give up His Glory in heaven to come to earth as a baby? If He did, how could HE CHOOSE to do that if He is being commanded by God? Does this mean that the Trinity is composed of 3 persons with 3 different wills?

ESS has the same problem that comp theology has. They speak of equality in ‘essence’ but then the ‘roles’ are not equal but a chain of command authority structure (outside the Incarnation for the Trinity) which means the ‘essence’ is not really equal at all. Using the word ‘essence’ in equality is a strawman to hide the false teaching.

BTW: Who does the Holy Spirit report to? For eternity past and future? I am assuming the chain of command within the Trinity means the Holy Spirit is subordinate, too?

ESS makes it sound like there are 3 different wills because there has to be eternal submission within the Trinity.

But I believe they are totally unified and during the Incarnation, our Lord WAS willingly subordinate. But not in eternity past or eternity future. I believe Jesus Christ is God. Not some lesser god as ESS teaches even though they say they don’t. They DO. Ware even goes as far as to say that Jesus Christ does not answer prayer and we should not pray to Him.

I think ESS is the biggest (old) repackaged heresy of our time and it will eventually divide the Body in a big way.

If Jesus Christ is your Sovereign Lord then He cannot be eternally subordinate to a higher more Sovereign God without being a lesser ‘God’.

Jesus Christ is God.
God is God
Holy Spirit is God.