Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
You said:

Cheryl, you said that false teachers were not believers and i agree, however it is not always evident to tell the difference. For example we are having a discussion over the woman issue. Now one side of the camp is in error and teaching ‘false’ doctrine about this issue, so one must be wrong and repent of their sin.

Mark, there is a huge difference between believing something wrong about secondary issues of faith and believing and teaching error on the essentials of the faith. Teaching an error about a secondary doctrine does not make one a false teacher. False teachers are not our brothers and sisters in Christ. So the question has to be, do you see us as your sisters in Christ? If you don’t then you will need to explain how secondary issues of faith became essentials for the faith. If you do accept us as sisters in Christ, then we cannot be false teachers and issues where disagreement is allowed are not to be areas where we judge each other. If you sincerely believe that women are not to teach the Bible to men, then I can only ask God to convict your heart of the truth. I do not judge you as a sinner who needs to repent. I would remind you that your duty is to love your sisters in Christ and allow them to be servants of Christ under His Lordship.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

If the Scripture never says that a woman serving in her gifts is in sin, then who are we to judge that she is in sin? It is better to remain silent and follow your own conscience than to judge another’s servant in error.

Therefore to say that comps are restricting women is as good as saying they are teaching false doctrine in my view, which i think is fine. We need to be passionate about the word, but make sure we teach it right.

It is error for sure, but doesn’t fall under the Scriptural definition for “false” doctrine which is outside of orthodoxy.

I also agree that the prophetic word was judged on what came out of the mouth, not if it came true.

Actually a prophet was judged on two things. The first thing was on whether his/her prophecies were true. If they did not come true, then they were to be stoned. However even if their prophesies came true, they would still be considered false prophets if the encouraged people to follow other gods.

Deu 13:1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

I do not believe that the test of a prophet has changed from the OT to the NT. The “fruits” of a false prophet are false prophecies and/or encouraging the people to follow after gods and other ways to God.

Now if i am saying that women should not be elders/pastors and i am wrong i am teaching false doctrine.

It is “error” not “false” doctrine that is outside the faith.

Likewise if Cheryl continues to promote her view of equality and is wrong she is teaching false doctrine.These are very serious issues of which why i quoted our Lord Jesus above-

It is a very serious thing to judge a secondary issue of faith as a “false” doctrine because judging in this way is divisive. The scripture that you quoted is about unbelievers being thrown into hell. Do you honestly and truly believe that teaching correct Biblical doctrine to men will get one thrown into hell?

It seems to me that these people had ‘fruit’ in their ministry yet it was not God’s. Therefore i think it is vital to a discussion like this to distinguish between a true gift and a false one, and definaterly not by a book which determines the gift.

No, my friend, the distinguishing that you are doing is between a believer and a non-believer. A Christian cannot have demonic gifts just as a good tree cannot bear bad fruit.

I wonder if you have any Scriptures that you would like to share with us about divisive behavior in the body of Christ? That might be more appropriate than to accuse us women of being unbelievers.

Also i am a bit confused why egals think that because Jesus appeared to ‘women’ it is concrete proof that they should lead and run churches.

Mark, I think you have simplified this and left something out. It wasn’t just that Jesus appeared to women, but that he commanded them to preach the good news to his brothers. The point is that Jesus was the one who commanded women to preach the good news in the first place. Should Jesus’ disciples now silence God’s women?