Cheryl Schatz

…continued…

Mark,
you said:

Also in relation to the ‘prophecy’ of the New Testament, it has to be understood that we can not relate it exactly to the prophecy of the Old Testament. For example the OT prophets spoke the very words of God, with full authority, and ultimately it was recorded as scripture for us. The prophecy of the NT does not seem to function this way. Note in 1 Cor 12 Paul seperates the gift of ‘prophecy’ to the gift of ‘teaching’

You are implying that a woman may have the gift of prophecy but that the manly gift of teaching is higher as it is separate. But God has not limited the gift of teaching to men and in the NT church Paul says that the one who is gifted with speaking is to speak as the very words of God. Paul here lumps the speaking gifts (prophecy, teaching) to speaking forth the Word. Those who have the gift of prophecy as just as encouraged to speak forth the very oracles of God as the ones gifted as teachers. There is no separation as if one is a higher gift than the other so that one is only an encouragement while one is manly preaching.

You said:

Not only that, but the prophecy Paul describes in Corinth is one of spirit guided utterance that needs to be tested.

Here you are implying that only those with the gift of prophecy need to be tested and those who have the gift of teaching the body are not to be tested in the same way. But that is not true. Paul said that we are to “test all things” and the Bereans are praised for even testing the Apostle Paul, one of the greatest teachers God has ever given.

You said:

Therefore it is evident that we should not stress to much on the continuance of prophecy of the OT to that of the NT. There seems to be variable differences. Paul expects woman to be gifted in this way and allows them to use that gift. However the gift of elder is only ever spoken of in relation to men, and men should only be in a position of oversight of the church and the teaching and preaching of the word.

Again you make a serious mistake by equating elder with one of God’s gifts. The elder is never listed in the lists of gifts and prophets can be elders, teachers can be elders, apostles can be elders, etc. What you don’t deal with is the gift of teacher that is in the very list that you quote. Can women be gifted teachers in the body of Christ teaching correct Biblical doctrine to men and rebuking error? There is no secondary gift of teaching that restricts women from using their full gift as teacher.

The error that you continually make by saying that only elders should teach and preach the word is that the Bible never says “only” nor does the Bible list a restriction on gender for teaching or preaching or protecting. A “pastor” should be a shepherd protecting the sheep, but pastor is never ever restricted to males. It is one of the gifts given by the Holy Spirit and not put into a list where gender, race, social standing or wealth restricts the operation of the gift.

You said:

Cheryl, now in relation to me showing you where a ‘law’ is that tells us how many times a woman can teach, I hope you can see that I have no intention of answering this question because it is not what I have said.

The problem is that you are redefining “teaching” to something less than the full gift of God. Where is “teaching” listed as a gift but as a lesser gift for women?

By redefine teaching as a lesser gift for women, you can now state that only men are allowed to teach and preach in the church and this kind of “teaching” is a higher teaching that is only allowed for one who has been ordained an elder, but you have failed to show that there is a secondary gift of teaching and that only those who have been ordained as an elder are allowed to teach.

Secondly if only men are allowed to teach and preach, then by doing something that is not “allowed” women must by necessity be in “sin” for doing that is not allowed. What I have been asking you all along, are women who are gifted by God as “teachers” (only one level is identified not a primary gifted teacher and a secondary subordinate gift of teacher) and women use these gifts for the edification of the entire body of Christ as Ephesians 4:11-14 show as well as 1 Peter 4:10- 11, are these women who do what you qualify as not allowed actually in sin?

You have answer “no” in the first place only because you have chosen to redefine the gift of teaching. Instead you state that teaching results from many things including singing. But I am not talking about what may end up as teaching but about the actual God-given gift of teaching.

What I am saying is this. The ‘teaching’ or ‘preaching’ of the word must only be the responsibility of the elders who the bible says are to only be men. I believe women may ‘teach’ in the sense of prayer and prophecy and singing etc but this teaching and gifting is different from that of the elders.

This is your opinion but it is not a Bible rule. You will have to show where God has stated that He will not gift women with doctrinal teaching for the entire congregation that will feed them and protect them. If God meant that a woman is not allowed to teach the church and not allowed to protect the church then He should have said it. A prohibition is a serious issue and God is never ambiguous on sin.

If a woman is Spirit-led and Spirit-gifted, where in the Scripture does God give the right to men to silence the working of the Holy Spirit? Is it possible that men have taken the “right” to protect the congregation and are instead of protecting from the wolves have turned aside to protect the body from the Holy Spirit’s work? Is this not grieving the Holy Spirit?