Cheryl Schatz

Mark,
Continuing on with the answers to your comment #84, and by the way if I didn’t thank you before, I really do appreciate that you are trying to answer my questions. Many others would have left without even trying to provide an answer so you are to be commended.

You wrote:

You said “But all elders are supposed to be teaching”

Now do you mean what this seems to mean that all elders teach or are supposed to be teaching? 1 Tim 3 says a qualification for an elder is that they are ‘able to teach’,…

As I answered in a previous comment, the Greek shows that all elders are to be skillful or gifted in teaching. Should a person that has the gifting as a teacher refuse to use his/her gift?

…but yet Paul says 2 chapters later in 5:17 that ‘elders who rule well are worthy of double honour, especially those who labour in preaching and teaching’. So the assumption is not all will teach yet they should be ‘able to teach’.

That would be an incorrect assumption from the passage. All are to be skillful in teaching but not all will labour in both preaching and teaching. Those who have a double duty so have a double honor.

See the difference? IS this why you don’t like discussing elders because of Pauls correlation between them shepharding and preaching and teaching and that he only instructs men to take this resposibilty.

There is no difference. The Bible doesn’t say that some elders are not to be skillful in teaching or not encouraged to use (not hide) their gift. I don’t like talking about elders when we are talking about gifts. An elder is not a gift. It is a work that one may desire to attain to. It is not helpful to the conversation to mix up the two.

I have to say that i don’t know why you dodge discussions on eldership. I know you say we are discussing gifts, but it seems silly to discuss gifts that are enormously important for the church without discussing leadership responsibilities. Is it because the two don’t mesh with your view? Are gifts a safer argument for you? Since often gifts and natural abilities are so often confused.

As I said it is not helpful to confuse a gift and a work that one may attain to. Once we have an understanding of what a gift is and who God may gift, then there will not be confusion and we can talk about leadership of those who are gifted.

You quoted me below and then responded:

You said “Do you believe that God can gift women as pastors? Or do you believe that God is limited in His work of giving out His gifts? Are you willing to answer this question that has been posed to you many times or are you going to bypass it one more time?”

No i will not answer this question because im not going to pretend i am God. I will answer questions in relation to His revealed truth, but i will not sin by making myself an idol before my Lord. Please direct you questions in a way that is not leading or loaded?

Mark, I see this as skirting the issue. It is not a sin to give glory to God by allowing Him to be Sovereign over His own gifts. How on earth is one “making myself an idol” by answering whether God has made any comment on whether He will or will not withhold His gifts from some due to gender? The fact is that you have already made it clear that women cannot be teachers so you are already setting yourself up as making God unable to use women by gifting them. How you explain the obvious spiritual gifts of women is really beyond me. Do you also doubt that God can give the gift of teaching to an unmarried men since an elder must be “the husband of one wife”? Using the “answer” that one can’t answer a question because it would be “making myself an idol” could be well used by any who would like to avoid the hard questions. I wouldn’t use it myself but I can see how many would find it handy.

You asked “If I am wrong, then do you now admit that one who prophesies is a teacher?”

No i do not think a prophet is a ‘teacher’ because Paul seperates the gifts. Like i said earlier im sure the NT prophets ‘taught’ things but it does not make them now have the gift of a ‘teacher’ necessarily. Are you now mashing prophecy and teaching after accusing me of doing it?

I was just trying to clarify what you were saying. You are not very clear in your view. I do agree with you that Paul “separates the gifts”. I would also add that each gift is different and each gift is not inseparably attached to another gift.