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@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals The disjunctive "or" in Paul's letters is multifunctional and context-dependent. In 1Co 14:36, Paul uses "or" in rhetorical questions to challenge the Corinthian believers, which I assert is ...

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals The disjunctive "or" in Paul's letters is multifunctional and context-dependent. In 1Co 14:36, Paul uses "or" in rhetorical questions to chal

1Co 14:36 debate

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals Paul is quoting a full quote from the Corinthians as he told the Corinthians that God is not a God of confusion. Then he shows the confusion. And then he rebukes the two verses and the pridef...

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals Paul is quoting a full quote from the Corinthians as he told the Corinthians that God is not a God of confusion. Then he shows the confusion.

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals There is a responsibility for the elders, but it is oversight, not control. Raising up those who are able to correctly discern is the desired outcome, not being the one doing everything as a ...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals There is a responsibility for the elders, but it is oversight, not control. Raising up those who are able to correctly discern is the desired

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals The Bereans weren't j

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals The Bereans weren't just the elders, but a characterization of the kind of people they were⎯they tested prophecy which was encouraged by Paul

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals The entirety of v34 a

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals The entirety of v34 and 35 are part of the quote. Its a much larger portion of text than Paul typically quoted earlier. These verses clearly

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals As believers, they are all qualified to learn discernment and should judge and since the Holy Spirit is with all believers, they should be treated as those who can have valid response to a te...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals As believers, they are all qualified to learn discernment and should judge and since the Holy Spirit is with all believers, they should be tr

1Co 11:13 question

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals There is an authority to serve the body by teaching, but it is not a hierarchy of authority over the body, but an authority of service. The elders are at the bottom⎯serving and pouring out th...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals There is an authority to serve the body by teaching, but it is not a hierarchy of authority over the body, but an authority of service. The e

Matt 18:15-20 debate

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Reading gender roles into this text illegitimately forces your complementarian bias onto Paul's intent and misses how it completely contradicts everything Paul has been saying in chapter 14 l...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Reading gender roles into this text illegitimately forces your complementarian bias onto Paul's intent and misses how it completely contradic

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Yes, decency and order⎯all participating, but not all at the same time. Not the order that recognizes some people as more important than others! That would be doing the same thing that Paul c...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Yes, decency and order⎯all participating, but not all at the same time. Not the order that recognizes some people as more important than othe

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals How is Paul speaking to the women when he addresses them in the third person plural in vs34-35 and the "you" in vs36 is second person plural? Where were women ever stated as saying that they...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals How is Paul speaking to the women when he addresses them in the third person plural in vs34-35 and the "you" in vs36 is second person plural?

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Yes, teaching and cor

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Yes, teaching and correcting false doctrine is an important function of the elders. But testing and discerning are meant for all believers, n

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals This also applies to prophecies made by even Paul himself. The Bereans checked what Paul said against prior revelation and were commended for it. And Paul said that even if he or an angel wer...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals This also applies to prophecies made by even Paul himself. The Bereans checked what Paul said against prior revelation and were commended for

1Co 11:33-34 1Co 14:34-35 debate

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals These are two very different situations and contexts. There is no discrimination whatsoever in 1Co 11:33-34 ⎯ in fact, it is because of discriminatory behaviour that Paul is correcting them. ...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals These are two very different situations and contexts. There is no discrimination whatsoever in 1Co 11:33-34 ⎯ in fact, it is because of discr

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Weighing prophecy is

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Weighing prophecy is not a function solely for the elders. https://t.co/jXLr47xY5c

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals "Administration of prophecy"? Where are you getting this from? What does that even mean? Paul's concern is simply that if someone is prophecying and another has a prophecy, the first should ...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals "Administration of prophecy"? Where are you getting this from? What does that even mean? Paul's concern is simply that if someone is prophec

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals I'm not sure how you got "order" out of this and are then using this to suggest that it is not appropriate for a woman to speak or ask questions⎯that would be a completely different sort of t...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals I'm not sure how you got "order" out of this and are then using this to suggest that it is not appropriate for a woman to speak or ask questi

1Co 14:29 1Co 6:2-3 general

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals “Have two or three prophets speak, and have the others pass judgment.” (1Co 14:29) There is nothing here stating that it is the "teacher's job" to pass judgment on prophecy. At minimum, the ...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals “Have two or three prophets speak, and have the others pass judgment.” (1Co 14:29) There is nothing here stating that it is the "teacher's j

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals Yes, but 1Co 14:34-35

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals Yes, but 1Co 14:34-35 is so clearly contradictory that with the full quote it stands in stark contrast to what Paul wrote earlier. It doesn’t

1Co 14:34-35 debate

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals Paul uses the phrase “Now concerning” to transition topics or to respond to a question they asked. In the case of 1Co 14:34-35, there is no question and Paul is not changing topics, so why is...

@ronhenzel @ymmotrojam @pastherandie @kriesese @smashbaals Paul uses the phrase “Now concerning” to transition topics or to respond to a question they asked. In the case of 1Co 14:34-35, there is no q

1Co 14:34-35 question

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Ron, how are single women, widows, women with unbelieving husbands and women with husbands that know less than them to learn? All women are not allowed to ask questions. Therefore, all the ...

@ronhenzel @pastherandie @ymmotrojam @kriesese @smashbaals Ron, how are single women, widows, women with unbelieving husbands and women with husbands that know less than them to learn? All women are

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals I appreciate this admission, but I assure you⎯there is no "sucking" of apostolic authority at all! Paul is giving the full context of what the Corinthians wrote. How could he include less an...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals I appreciate this admission, but I assure you⎯there is no "sucking" of apostolic authority at all! Paul is giving the full context of what t

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals You are saying that Paul doesn't want the women to contribute to the learning of the community: 14:1 - "Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals You are saying that Paul doesn't want the women to contribute to the learning of the community: 14:1 - "Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spi

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals So⎯again, you said "all" can learn includes women, right? But then v35 says, "if [the women] desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home." Which is it, Tom? Can all le...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals So⎯again, you said "all" can learn includes women, right? But then v35 says, "if [the women] desire to learn anything, let them ask their ow

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals So basically... what

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals So basically... what you are CURRENTLY doing is disobeying your own version of Paul's command.

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals But you have to use the language of v35, and that says "if they (the women) desire to learn ANYTHING, let them ask their husbands at home" That is, in your view... ❌Paul doesn't tell them to...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals But you have to use the language of v35, and that says "if they (the women) desire to learn ANYTHING, let them ask their husbands at home" T

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals But again, you want to use "all" to mean literally "all can learn" but want the first all in the same verse ("all can prophesy") to apply to only the men? The fact that they are to do it in ...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals But again, you want to use "all" to mean literally "all can learn" but want the first all in the same verse ("all can prophesy") to apply to

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals No, v35 says "if they

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals No, v35 says "if they desire to learn ANYTHING let them ask their husbands at home" The options of small group, home group or full church ar

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals So the whole congregation includes the women, right? How is it that he talks about them TO them? He tells the women to silence the women? If that's the case and he includes the women in v36...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals So the whole congregation includes the women, right? How is it that he talks about them TO them? He tells the women to silence the women? I

@ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals BTW Ron, isn't this interesting... the text says "If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home" (1Co 14:35). So they cannot ask an elder in church as it says "at home." They are also to a...

@ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals BTW Ron, isn't this interesting... the text says "If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home" (1Co 14:35). So they cannot ask an elder

1Co 14:35 general

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Tom...you are already in trouble...because you admitted it's ok for women to ask questions in small groups. The text says explicitly: "If they [women] desire to learn anything, let them ask ...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Tom...you are already in trouble...because you admitted it's ok for women to ask questions in small groups. The text says explicitly: "If th

1Co 14:35 general

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Also, Paul said in v3

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Also, Paul said in v31 that "all can learn" but v35 suggests that women CANNOT LEARN in the community but must learn IN PRIVATE at home with

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Also, you said that women could ask questions in small groups when the whole church is not gathered... but v35 says "if they want to learn" they are supposed to ask their husbands at home, no...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Also, you said that women could ask questions in small groups when the whole church is not gathered... but v35 says "if they want to learn" t

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Tom ⎯ who in your view is Paul supposedly talking to in v34-35 and who is being spoken to in v36? In v34-35, it is speaking of the women in 3rd person plural, but the "you" in v36 is 2nd pers...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Tom ⎯ who in your view is Paul supposedly talking to in v34-35 and who is being spoken to in v36? In v34-35, it is speaking of the women in 3

@smashbaals I don’t reject Paul and believe that women are not forbidden from se

@smashbaals I don’t reject Paul and believe that women are not forbidden from serving as pastors. I guess your chart breaks at the first step. 🤷‍♂️

@pastherandie @ymmotrojam @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Right, you’re just no

@pastherandie @ymmotrojam @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Right, you’re just not supposed to pass him your question during church as that would not be entirely submissive. Pass him the note before y

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals That translation misses the force of Paul’s words… "What? came the word of God out from you [men]? or came it unto you [men] only?" (1Co 14:36, KJV). The fact is that the word came out from...

@ymmotrojam @pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals That translation misses the force of Paul’s words… "What? came the word of God out from you [men]? or came it unto you [men] only?" (1Co 14:

1Co 14:36 question

@pastherandie @ymmotrojam @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Not referring to Tom or Ron, but there sure have been a lot of people coming out of the woodwork and breathing fire on egalitarians. I had a guy tell me he would not block me over his dead b...

@pastherandie @ymmotrojam @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Not referring to Tom or Ron, but there sure have been a lot of people coming out of the woodwork and breathing fire on egalitarians. I had a

@kriesese @pastherandie @ronhenzel @smashbaals Paul’s use of that idiom does not mean a married man…else Paul (and Timothy) would be excluded. By the same reasoning, neither is this excluding women. Paul did not say “must not be a woman,” but is sayi...

@kriesese @pastherandie @ronhenzel @smashbaals Paul’s use of that idiom does not mean a married man…else Paul (and Timothy) would be excluded. By the same reasoning, neither is this excluding women. P

@pastherandie @ymmotrojam @914Ann @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Well, no, it’

@pastherandie @ymmotrojam @914Ann @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Well, no, it’s just all these made up yard sticks that get defined by men who try their best to obey commands that the scripture isn’

@pastherandie @ymmotrojam @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals I don’t blame Ron and Tom for trying hard to find a way for the complementarian view to fit scripture. Hopefully one day they will see more clearly. Unfortunately, men don’t have a lot of mot...

@pastherandie @ymmotrojam @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals I don’t blame Ron and Tom for trying hard to find a way for the complementarian view to fit scripture. Hopefully one day they will see more c

@pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Yes, but not in Ron or Tom’s chur

@pastherandie @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Yes, but not in Ron or Tom’s church…

@ymmotrojam @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Ron says that they could ask the elders—then why is that not what Paul says? Why are only the women guided to ask the elders and not everyone? Tom, you say that Paul just wants to say that the questions s...

@ymmotrojam @ronhenzel @kriesese @smashbaals Ron says that they could ask the elders—then why is that not what Paul says? Why are only the women guided to ask the elders and not everyone? Tom, you sa

@SKokenos @smashbaals A disciple will eventually be a discipler of others. Whether or not they become full time pastors or not is not the concern. There are no limitations except those based on character and being sound in the faith. Even Moses sai...

@SKokenos @smashbaals A disciple will eventually be a discipler of others. Whether or not they become full time pastors or not is not the concern. There are no limitations except those based on chara

@smashbaals Then why do you believe that a woman is forbidden from serving as a

@smashbaals Then why do you believe that a woman is forbidden from serving as a pastor?

@ronhenzel @ScottCross_8 @ewarner88 @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @ymmotrojam @MikeWingerii Thanks. I only had to spend $11 this time to read the context. Collins himself admits that the wayyiqtol normally implies: "Genesis 2:19 seems to...

@ronhenzel @ScottCross_8 @ewarner88 @JollyStine @pastherandie @peace_got @ymmotrojam @MikeWingerii Thanks. I only had to spend $11 this time to read the context. Collins himself admits that the wayyi

Genesis 2:19 commentary

@ewarner88 @ronhenzel @pastherandie @ScottCross_8 @JollyStine @peace_got @ymmotr

@ewarner88 @ronhenzel @pastherandie @ScottCross_8 @JollyStine @peace_got @ymmotrojam @MikeWingerii Genesis is not history? I’m convinced that God actually wrote at least those first chapters of Genesi

@pastherandie @JohnGal63607182 @ryancduff @Whi79226Anthony @MikeWingerii It’s because he believes it harms the complementarian view that gender roles are to represent Christ and the church. He thinks there is a one way submission in that relationship...

@pastherandie @JohnGal63607182 @ryancduff @Whi79226Anthony @MikeWingerii It’s because he believes it harms the complementarian view that gender roles are to represent Christ and the church. He thinks

@ymmotrojam @914Ann Appreciate your tone, Tom. You are always gracious and are an example. The passage says that women need to be silent and ask their husbands at home. What about single women, widows, women with unbelieving husbands or husbands tha...

@ymmotrojam @914Ann Appreciate your tone, Tom. You are always gracious and are an example. The passage says that women need to be silent and ask their husbands at home. What about single women, widow

@freemarketeer1 @DustyMayT @MikeWingerii What is a gross mischaracterization? Women are to be subordinate in the church in that if they feel called to teach (the authoritative scripture) or serve as a pastor, they have to remain subordinate to men (i...

@freemarketeer1 @DustyMayT @MikeWingerii What is a gross mischaracterization? Women are to be subordinate in the church in that if they feel called to teach (the authoritative scripture) or serve as a

Scripture Commentary tweet 2024-03-25

@BlueGiant42 @MikeWingerii Mike is considered by a pastor by many of his audience of nearly 700k on YouTube. He is the most popular level advocate today for complementarian teaching. That in itself is fine—he is allowed to hold his own views on thing...

@BlueGiant42 @MikeWingerii Mike is considered by a pastor by many of his audience of nearly 700k on YouTube. He is the most popular level advocate today for complementarian teaching. That in itself is