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Scripture Commentary tweet 2023-11-29

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @kelcy_lowry So Paul is describing sal

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @kelcy_lowry So Paul is describing salvation for women only? Since when is there a means of salvation for women different from men?

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Scripture Commentary tweet 2023-11-29

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @kelcy_lowry Mike’s position hasn’t fundamentally changed since he started commenting on 1 Tim 2:11-15 about 4 years ago. The major difference is he holds it much more strongly now, and he’s hopeful v15’s th...

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @kelcy_lowry Mike’s position hasn’t fundamentally changed since he started commenting on 1 Tim 2:11-15 about 4 years ago. The major difference is he holds it

1 Tim 2:11-15 debate

Scripture Commentary tweet 2023-11-29

@SimonReye @hashim_warren @Duke456521 @MikeWingerii This really isn’t that different from using a word from King James or old English. Mike did admit that the term had negative connotations previously, but said it wasn’t plausible because “Paul is n...

@SimonReye @hashim_warren @Duke456521 @MikeWingerii This really isn’t that different from using a word from King James or old English. Mike did admit that the term had negative connotations previousl

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @kelcy_lowry So Paul is describing sal

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @kelcy_lowry Mike’s position hasn’t fundamentally changed since he started commenting on 1 Tim 2:11-15 about 4 years ago. The major difference is he holds it much more strongly now, and he’s hopeful v15’s th...

@SimonReye @hashim_warren @Duke456521 @MikeWingerii This really isn’t that different from using a word from King James or old English. Mike did admit that the term had negative connotations previously, but said it wasn’t plausible because “Paul is n...

@3HillsMinor @Deigratia1985 Why would God want His church to split over something so trivial as whether true doctrine was spoken by a godly female vessel? I am on side with you about the acceptance of sin being a problem, but I’m just saying I don’t...

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @kelcy_lowry So “she (singular)” and “they (plural)” are referring to the same group? To individual typical women in the church? Where does Paul ever use the plural to refer to individuals? Most single/bar...

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @kelcy_lowry How do you know that “She (singular, feminine)” represents believers? If she will be saved like we all will be saved one day, why not make a general statement about all believers? I’m pretty su...

@RisingDisciples What does God’s wrath have to do with persecution from men? The West hasn’t seen real persecution in a long time, but I’m fully aware what happened to all the apostles and many, many, many over the years who were tortured. I can re...

@Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 @ymmotrojam @kelcy_lowry This is not a game for me. I still want to know who R.D. James is. Let’s start with explaining 1 Tim 2:15. - Who is the she (singular)? - Who are they (plural)? - What is “the (definite) child...

@ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 Using scripture to help decide is great. I wasn’t trying to pick any particular decision per se, but the idea that in a disagreement, your desires are prioritized over those of your wife’s. So ultimately ...

@kelcy_lowry @ymmotrojam @Deigratia1985 @ich1ban123456 All I’m doing is emulatin

@ich1ban123456 @psalm119164 @ymmotrojam In the context of husbands and wives being in a sort of master-slave relationship, women being treated like property, there was a common issue here that Paul was addressing in his corrective. The wives were ob...

@SimonReye @hashim_warren @Duke456521 @MikeWingerii Take a look at this clip. Surely he has seen my explanation on this going around X as he talks about social media and I have been responding with this idea for months on any thread discussing 1 Tim...

@graceforprize @3HillsMinor @Rattle_Resists @Kdubtru @michael_ronning I didn't flip, Paul switched to the singular. This should stand out clearly to any Greek reader. Paul is focusing on a specific deceived woman who has left orthodoxy and who is u...

@ich1ban123456 @ymmotrojam My point is that even in cases where there is actually a male pronoun, we use context to understand that it includes all people. This means if you are going to exclude and restrict women from something and make it a sin if...

@SimonReye @hashim_warren @Duke456521 @MikeWingerii Also, it appears you didn't read my post that I linked when discussing about why I conclude the way I do on authentein being about murder. Here is the quote: "The accuracy of the NTS articles of G...

@ymmotrojam @ich1ban123456 But I’m not saying it has to be a female, but you are saying it has to be a male and it is sin if it’s a female. All this with no male pronouns. I’m just showing what is kinda funny…that overseer is feminine. I don’t nee...

@SimonReye @hashim_warren @Duke456521 @MikeWingerii I believe Paul was searching for a word that represented perfectly what he was getting at. If he wanted to say a woman should not take a place of authority, he had several common words he could hav...

@ymmotrojam Also, “be silent” is a single command but Paul says “things (plural)

@ronhenzel @ZacharyGarris Where do we find any statement of women speaking in church or teaching from the pulpit listed as a SIN? The word SIN is never used. If you think that sin is defined by disobeying a command, then consider the following comm...

@ymmotrojam 1 Cor 14:34⎯doesn't say sin 1 Tim 2:11⎯doesn't say sin 1 Tim 3:15⎯Paul is referring to the qualifications for elders (shouldn't be drunkards, greedy for financial gain, must hold to the faith with a clear conscience, etc)⎯it also doesn't ...

@ymmotrojam So a woman can bump into 5 church friends at Walmart, gather in a ci

@ymmotrojam Can you point out where Paul states that a woman speaking in a specific type of gathering is called a SIN? (this detail is important⎯it should be very clear that this is a SIN). Additionally, does Paul specify that the sinfulness of an ...

@ymmotrojam @ich1ban123456 Sin is sin. It's not about sincerity or my heart's d

@ymmotrojam Again, you are making up this whole idea of formal/informal, and it only causes confusion, especially when you tie it to sin. Further, Paul's instruction was actually NOT to cover one's head. That includes women. Except if a woman is m...

@ymmotrojam This makes this prohibition very confusing. If you have a gathering that is studying scripture and communing together and women can speak and share, but in the case of a full gathering they have to be silent or otherwise be in rebellion ...

@ymmotrojam @ich1ban123456 Rather, it is those in the church that say God prefers one biological sex over the other (even though He saves both) that may in fact be the impetus causing much of the cultural backlash and overshoot. But at any rate, I d...

@ymmotrojam @ich1ban123456 That's great! I'm not contending that people don't submit to this structure and that it can't work. My energy is on this topic because of those who are causing division in the body because of it. BTW, there was a group c...

@ymmotrojam @ich1ban123456 Ok. I realize that you are trying to take the scripture seriously⎯which is commendable. So long as you don't look down on your brothers and sisters who see these non-primary matters differently, that you don't see us in s...

@ymmotrojam @ich1ban123456 Singing is just speaking put to music. If she cannot speak then she cannot sing. That would be taking away the glory of a man. In church only males can have God’s glory. Women should be sitting silently and listening to the...

@ymmotrojam @ich1ban123456 So women cannot speak or sing then? You said their r

@ymmotrojam @ich1ban123456 So it is shameful, filthy nakedness, base, sordid, sh

@ich1ban123456 @ymmotrojam So they can teach the Bible to children and adult wom

@ich1ban123456 @ymmotrojam The requirement isn't must be male. First, the comment about "one wife husband" is the only place in the Greek might indicate male, but it says husband. If Paul wasn't married and advocated for singleness, then this is no...

@patrioticzeal @smashbaals I agree with your last point, but here we are talking about it and you added your opinion, so why not think about it? As you notice, he identified himself in all his letters... 13 of them. But not Hebrews, the last writte...

@Deigratia1985 @Duke456521 @MikeWingerii @hashim_warren Yes, that is fine by me. You have to judge things for yourself. I think that Mike has been great in many, many respects—my only concerns have been on this issue of women in ministry but so lon...

@3HillsMinor You are entitled to your opinion. But that’s all it is—an opinion.

@3HillsMinor @Rattle_Resists @Kdubtru @michael_ronning That’s what I’m contending. I’m contending this is not referring to all women because Paul explicitly uses the singular and specifies it is a specific woman because of the anaphoric reference to...

@3HillsMinor @Rattle_Resists @Kdubtru @michael_ronning Even Mike Winger admits that women can be deacons and yet the term “one wife husband” is also a requirement of deacons. Was Paul married? No. And he advocated for singleness—since it removes d...

@3HillsMinor @Rattle_Resists @Kdubtru @michael_ronning You are misinterpreting 1 Tim 2:12. You assume it's as clear as mud, but its just mud in the eye of the complementarians and Patriachists! Read chapter 1⎯how Paul refers to the purpose of stopp...

@MikeWingerii 🔍 In the clip from [1:44:48] to [1:46:15], you again question how an egalitarian husband can avoid submitting to his wife. "Do he need to go to a different church?" you say. 🤔 But, I disagree with your interpretation of verse 12. I se...

@Duke456521 @Ashwin_Vengayil @MikeWingerii @hashim_warren I don’t think he was c

@graceforprize So women can teach ONLY the following: - WHO: younger women who are married - WHAT: to love their husbands and children Anything else (like theology or any other instruction) and to anyone else⎯these must by taught by the husband. Si...

@sympatheticNPC @graceforprize I think, however, that we still have teachers in the church in that elders must be able to teach. So the Holy Spirit does work through people. It's just that we shouldn't consider any elder or pastor as "the teacher" ...

@cosmoofprague While testifying to the truth of something like the resurrection and the facts forming the basis is not the same as explaining new concepts (ie. teaching), one might say that testifying is more authoritative since teaching is giving so...

@graceforprize @sympatheticNPC While testifying to the truth of something like the resurrection and the facts forming the basis is not the same as explaining new concepts (ie. teaching), one might say that testifying is more authoritative since teach...

@Rattle_Resists @Kdubtru @michael_ronning Not really. It’s assuming that everyo

@PauleyMo67 BTW, you are actually quoting what was said **at the tomb** when Mary Magdeline discovered that Jesus was missing. This is not what she said when telling the disciples the good news! “They asked her, ‘Woman, why are you crying?’ She sai...

@jdenehar Thanks for sharing your thoughts and chiming in. What are the specific husband/wife roles you are referring to? How do those apply to singles? what authority does your pastor and elders have? Can they tell you what kind of car you shoul...

@MarcellusLoseph @OrthoMemeSquad Did you know that the Greek says “the (definite

@dmichaelclary This is progress back to the original intent of the Biblical text. It is not progressive away from the text. 1 Tim 2:12 isn’t an imperative, it uses the singular and it references a word related to authority that isn’t used in a posi...

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@PauleyMo67 BTW, you are actually quoting what was said at the tomb when Mary Magdeline discovered that Jesus was missing. This is not what she said when telling the disciples the good news! “They asked her, ‘Woman, why are you crying?’ She sai...