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1Ti 2:12 1Ti 3:1-13 debate

@Cooper9DL You are taking 1Ti 2:12 out of context and are treating “head” in the sense of authority or master over which is not the sense in which Paul was using the word kephale. Your comment about 1Ti 3:1-13 being directed at only men is likely due...

@Cooper9DL You are taking 1Ti 2:12 out of context and are treating “head” in the sense of authority or master over which is not the sense in which Paul was using the word kephale. Your comment about 1

@coramdeo1 @kdclaunch You get my point? How? I am the one who is taking Paul’s purpose as written, and you are the one who is taking what is not explicit and making something more which is not stated and then taking the poor interpretation of many i...

@coramdeo1 @kdclaunch You get my point? How? I am the one who is taking Paul’s purpose as written, and you are the one who is taking what is not explicit and making something more which is not stated

@coramdeo1 I’m not ignoring the literary structure of Gen 1-3. That the man is created first, the woman is created from the man and she is created for the man does not imply or require that she is to be ruled by the man. Authority is given to both t...

@coramdeo1 I’m not ignoring the literary structure of Gen 1-3. That the man is created first, the woman is created from the man and she is created for the man does not imply or require that she is to

@ScottCross_8 @TheMuppetPastor @KittyMitchell7 How do you know that?

@kdclaunch Paul has no concept of “gender roles” with respect to authority or hi

@kdclaunch Paul has no concept of “gender roles” with respect to authority or hierarchy.

@TarienCole @VCITW Except that’s not my intention. I want to obey everything that God intends by the text. For example, do you intend to obey any of the following commands from Paul? How is it that you are not obeying a scriptural imperative?? "Whe...

@TarienCole @VCITW Except that’s not my intention. I want to obey everything that God intends by the text. For example, do you intend to obey any of the following commands from Paul? How is it that y

@nation_gale @KylePierce96 I’m just taking the details in the text, context, gra

@nation_gale @KylePierce96 I’m just taking the details in the text, context, grammar and references and drawing reasonable conclusions. Scripture doesn’t forbid godly women from teaching truth to any

@TarienCole @VCITW I don’t ignore this, just interpreting it in context. Paul do

@TarienCole @VCITW I don’t ignore this, just interpreting it in context. Paul doesn’t say women (plural) but “a woman.” And he uses a very unusual word authentein (no man is said to authentein anyone

@Trentofthenorth @kdclaunch The command was first given to Adam, then later to both Adam and Eve (Eve’s quoting God has Him speaking to plural persons). Adam called her “woman” or “Isha” as she came out of “Ish”—it’s a functional association and has...

@Trentofthenorth @kdclaunch The command was first given to Adam, then later to both Adam and Eve (Eve’s quoting God has Him speaking to plural persons). Adam called her “woman” or “Isha” as she came

@coramdeo1 @kdclaunch No one (including me) is arguing that the letters written to specific individuals were not intended to be read by the rest of us and treated as scripture. What I’m saying is that we must take Paul’s meaning in the context that ...

@coramdeo1 @kdclaunch No one (including me) is arguing that the letters written to specific individuals were not intended to be read by the rest of us and treated as scripture. What I’m saying is tha

@LogicSaysBurn Jesus demonstrated a difference between childhood and adulthood.

@LogicSaysBurn Jesus demonstrated a difference between childhood and adulthood. When his parents told him to come with them as a child, he submitted. When his mother tried to extract him while he was

@LogicSaysBurn Both single and married progeny should continue to honor their pa

@LogicSaysBurn Both single and married progeny should continue to honor their parents. Honouring doesn’t mean subordinate or obedient to (in the same way as in their childhood). This is nothing to do

@LogicSaysBurn Ok, glad you got that one right. Jesus submitted himself to his parents as a child, but when he was ministering and his mother was trying to extract Him, He didn’t submit. If Adam wasn’t a child (he was not even 1 day old), then neith...

@LogicSaysBurn Ok, glad you got that one right. Jesus submitted himself to his parents as a child, but when he was ministering and his mother was trying to extract Him, He didn’t submit. If Adam wasn

@VCITW That’s almost what Luther claimed when he confronted the Roman Catholic C

@VCITW That’s almost what Luther claimed when he confronted the Roman Catholic Church. At any rate, I’m claiming to align with the church IN the New Testament. The ones after that are honestly irrele

@MariaDyck18 @GlennDavies @kdclaunch It really is a spectrum. My last church all

@MariaDyck18 @GlennDavies @kdclaunch It really is a spectrum. My last church allowed women to do everything except be lead pastor. Most churches, women lead children’s ministries and the women’s minis

@Mayo_Mingzi @kdclaunch Deborah had highest authority over everyone in Israel as God’s mouthpiece both as prophet and judge. She was just like Samuel. So your statement that “women must not have spiritual authority over men” is just false since God ...

@Mayo_Mingzi @kdclaunch Deborah had highest authority over everyone in Israel as God’s mouthpiece both as prophet and judge. She was just like Samuel. So your statement that “women must not have spir

@coramdeo1 “You” is second person singular, not plural. Paul’s instruction is sp

@coramdeo1 “You” is second person singular, not plural. Paul’s instruction is specifically to him and about how he ought to conduct himself to correct false teaching and setup the church to prevent it

@coramdeo1 I am following Paul’s reasoning: the order of creation has something

@coramdeo1 I am following Paul’s reasoning: the order of creation has something to do with being deceived or not. That was Paul’s point. And your point is that being created first is about rule and a

@coramdeo1 @kdclaunch Paul clarifies again, that he writes to Timothy and uses second person singular “you” to explain it is to show him how he should act in the church: "I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long; but ...

@coramdeo1 @kdclaunch Paul clarifies again, that he writes to Timothy and uses second person singular “you” to explain it is to show him how he should act in the church: "I am writing these things **

@coramdeo1 @kdclaunch Wow, this is pretty basic Chris… ok let’s crack open our Bibles. “To Timothy…” (1Ti 1:2) - The letter is clearly from Paul. - Paul clearly identifies that he is writing this letter to Timothy - The second person singular prono...

@coramdeo1 @kdclaunch Wow, this is pretty basic Chris… ok let’s crack open our Bibles. “To Timothy…” (1Ti 1:2) - The letter is clearly from Paul. - Paul clearly identifies that he is writing this le

1Ti 1:2 general

@coramdeo1 God deals with the man first—why? Why does God not ask Eve why she di

@coramdeo1 God deals with the man first—why? Why does God not ask Eve why she didn’t submit to Adam’s rule? Why does this have anything to do with deception when it is really all about not following G

@coramdeo1 Comps are speculating that creation order is about hierarchy and authority. What evidence is there that authority structures are present between the man and the woman in Gen 2-3? You claim that the serpent violates the order by approachi...

@coramdeo1 Comps are speculating that creation order is about hierarchy and authority. What evidence is there that authority structures are present between the man and the woman in Gen 2-3? You clai

@coramdeo1 Ok, let’s try then. How does stopping all women from preaching or te

@coramdeo1 Ok, let’s try then. How does stopping all women from preaching or teaching men have anything to do with stopping false teaching? Why would Paul write such general instructions for women i

Here he intentionally misconstrues Satan’s temptation as violating gender hierar

Here he intentionally misconstrues Satan’s temptation as violating gender hierarchy rather than Satan taking advantage of Eve’s lack of experience of God. In conclusion, Kyle has not presented any ev

Because Kyle gets the context and purpose of the letter wrong and misunderstands

Because Kyle gets the context and purpose of the letter wrong and misunderstands how the time sequence of creation relates to deception, his conclusions do not follow from the text but promote patriar

Kyle forgets that this is a personal letter to Timothy, not a general letter to the church. Paul states expressly that his intent was to leave Timothy behind to stop some from teaching false doctrines. Paul’s intent was not to setup some sort of gend...

Kyle forgets that this is a personal letter to Timothy, not a general letter to the church. Paul states expressly that his intent was to leave Timothy behind to stop some from teaching false doctrines

The serpent approaches the woman as she can be deceived. There is no evidence that anyone present is aware of any gender-based hierarchy. The serpent doesn’t say anything about being liberated from Adam’s authority. Adam is also right beside Eve li...

The serpent approaches the woman as she can be deceived. There is no evidence that anyone present is aware of any gender-based hierarchy. The serpent doesn’t say anything about being liberated from A

This is a misreading of 1Ti 2:13-14—Paul is using Adam and Eve as prototypes of a specific couple in Ephesus. Why? Because the woman was ignorant and deceived and as Paul outlined in 1Ti 1, those who are ignorant receive mercy meaning not naming them...

This is a misreading of 1Ti 2:13-14—Paul is using Adam and Eve as prototypes of a specific couple in Ephesus. Why? Because the woman was ignorant and deceived and as Paul outlined in 1Ti 1, those who

1Ti 2:13-14 debate

1Ti 2:11-15 1Ti 3:1-13 debate

1Ti 2:11-15 addresses a specific situation of a deceived wife teaching false doctrine and her undeceived husband (likely an elder) being silent and doing nothing. What about the qualification for overseers? 1Ti 3:1-13 does not explicitly forbid wom...

1Ti 2:11-15 addresses a specific situation of a deceived wife teaching false doctrine and her undeceived husband (likely an elder) being silent and doing nothing. What about the qualification for ove

While it is true that mankind was given authority over the rest of creation, the woman was uniquely created from Adam’s flesh and bone whereas the other animals were individually created from the dust. This shows there is no hierarchy between the ma...

While it is true that mankind was given authority over the rest of creation, the woman was uniquely created from Adam’s flesh and bone whereas the other animals were individually created from the dust

The second mistake is missing that Paul is referring to the time sequence of creation not gender hierarchy. Since Adam was created first and observed God creating he was prepared for the temptation of the serpent and could not be deceived. Eve was c...

The second mistake is missing that Paul is referring to the time sequence of creation not gender hierarchy. Since Adam was created first and observed God creating he was prepared for the temptation o

🧵 Kyle @kdclaunch attempts to show that the Bible forbids women from functioning

🧵 Kyle @kdclaunch attempts to show that the Bible forbids women from functioning pastorally. Unfortunately, he misconstrues the purpose of 1Ti 2:11-15, Paul’s intent for this personal letter to Timo

1Ti 2:11-15 general

@BeardedPresby @CherylSchatz Sure says something when you basically quote John 3

@BeardedPresby @CherylSchatz Sure says something when you basically quote John 3:16 and people think it is blasphemy. You need to unravel your Calvinist indoctrination. Believe me, it will make much

John 3:16 general

@AaronCReale However, if we are going to pick various characteristics, since are all unique individuals, in the limit, you have one “kind” for each individual which is obviously silly. God doesn’t determine salvation by statistics and characteristic...

@AaronCReale However, if we are going to pick various characteristics, since are all unique individuals, in the limit, you have one “kind” for each individual which is obviously silly. God doesn’t de

@thecrazypastor Exactly.

@WizardTraveling In addition Paul is adding in Kings in that he is saying to pray for ALL men EVEN kings and EVEN the false teachers. This is an extension of the whole (all men) with specific people picked out for a reason, but it doesn’t have anythi...

@WizardTraveling In addition Paul is adding in Kings in that he is saying to pray for ALL men EVEN kings and EVEN the false teachers. This is an extension of the whole (all men) with specific people p

@WizardTraveling Kings are not classes of men. What Paul is saying here is that Kings are not picked out because they are a class of men that God has picked to be saved, but that Kings are important SO THAT we may lead a tranquil and quiet life. The ...

@WizardTraveling Kings are not classes of men. What Paul is saying here is that Kings are not picked out because they are a class of men that God has picked to be saved, but that Kings are important S

No, it just shows that those churches are able to tolerate differences on second

No, it just shows that those churches are able to tolerate differences on secondary matters because unity is more important than forcing others to agree with you on all debatable matters. https://t.co

@avyargo @_nomadic_soul How am I twisting it by making sense of every detail in the grammar and the context? You have accepted an interpretation that doesn’t even make sense of the history where we have women like Deborah instructing and teaching me...

@avyargo @_nomadic_soul How am I twisting it by making sense of every detail in the grammar and the context? You have accepted an interpretation that doesn’t even make sense of the history where we h

@avyargo @_nomadic_soul It’s pretty clear that a godly woman is not restricted f

@avyargo @_nomadic_soul It’s pretty clear that a godly woman is not restricted from serving in any capacity that God gifted her in, including overseer or elder or deacon.

@James_AndrewRob @i0wa_Guy @smashbaals Yes, but leading is not a sin. Otherwise

@James_AndrewRob @i0wa_Guy @smashbaals Yes, but leading is not a sin. Otherwise God wouldn’t have chosen Deborah to be the highest authority in the land (like Samuel).

@James_AndrewRob @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning Context doesn’t matter to you?

@James_AndrewRob @Rattle_Resists @michael_ronning Context doesn’t matter to you? It’s also pretty clear to me that this text isn’t forbidding godly women from teaching truth to anyone.

@ChristMount777 @JoWiKi Unity of the body is also very important. More important than you getting your way in everything or your own personal comfort. Your church may have only male leaders but cooperating with others that have female leaders means t...

@ChristMount777 @JoWiKi Unity of the body is also very important. More important than you getting your way in everything or your own personal comfort. Your church may have only male leaders but cooper

@TomBuck There is no office of pastor. Pastor is a function not an office.

@TomBuck Where is the title pastor given to anyone in the New Testament? 🤔

@larrydrobertson It’s not that disfellowshipping isn’t important it’s just that

@larrydrobertson It’s not that disfellowshipping isn’t important it’s just that it should be done over primary matters not debatable secondary matters like what gender pastor you have.

@iamjabberwacky @EsbenBrinck @paulogia0 Well, we all know evolution doesn’t even

@iamjabberwacky @EsbenBrinck @paulogia0 Well, we all know evolution doesn’t even occur until you have reproduction and natural selection. So I guess we can start with how we got first life? Frankly, i

@TarienCole Being able to track people? All it takes is one meeting with the pastor and one question…he can then add them to the list. I suppose if the person is just visiting and not attending regularly then that could be treated differently. Even s...

@TarienCole Being able to track people? All it takes is one meeting with the pastor and one question…he can then add them to the list. I suppose if the person is just visiting and not attending regula

@TarienCole Anyone who called themselves a brother was a member of the church and subject to church discipline: "If any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with su...

@TarienCole Anyone who called themselves a brother was a member of the church and subject to church discipline: "If any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a

1Co 5:11 general

@JohnPiper But Paul says that he boasts in his weakness, so boasting is not excluded completely: "But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore **I will boast all the more gladly of my weakn...

@JohnPiper But Paul says that he boasts in his weakness, so boasting is not excluded completely: "But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Theref