Barbara K

Greetings TL!

Oh, this is interesting with so much feedback,though I don’t know how long I can keep up being timely!

Yes, it could very well be a warning, but I am not certain it has to be that. How have you determined this?

Since it is the written word and we do not know the manner in which it was spoken, it seems to me it could be interpreted various ways.

Just for example; when Yeshua said to Peter who was sinking: “Oh you of little faith! Why did you doubt?” Do you interpret that as a rebuke or an encouragement?

It seems to me at times, that how we interpret things like this may say more about our own expectations and experience than it does about what actually happened… just a thought.

Blessings in Him!

Thanks for the positive response, Kristin! I really liked your summary, too.

By understanding this overarching theme, we can more easily weed out what is incorrect teaching– because it results in a continuation of division rather than contributing to restoration of oneness.

I might add, though, that as I understand it, the type of “rule” that a husband is supposed to provide is NOT the aggressive, demeaning type of leadership. In Genesis 3:16 the word translated “rule” is yimeshalbake, as one effort at transliteration anyway, from “mashal” which means more along the lines of:
determine character, example,; rule, parable, reign, proverb
and is very different from “rada” also translated as “rule” in chapter 1, but which refers to the act of subduing or having dominion OVER someone, or thing.

So, rather than being justification for men to subdue women, it is more like a picture of the need for determination to care for a wife as Messiah cares for His Bride. Leading by example; servant leadership as is often said. Like a Proverb is a teaching example of the development of character. And women are teaching examples of the development of character every bit as much as men are. Both are included in Proverbs, referring to the importance of holding on to both father and mother’s teachings.

I really see it that neither Adam or Eve did what they should have done according to their form and function as male/female so there was indeed room for confusion and destructive ways of interpreting that whole thing.

As I said, comparison is made with sun and moon; greater and lesser lights, but again the mistake has been made thinking that male human beings are THE sun; when here we see that mankind, male and female are the moon, reflecting Yeshua Who is our Light/Sun.

But, in His time, He is going about the business of allowing the division in order to bring about the full and complete witness.
Isn’t there a verse in Corinthians, I think, about the necessity of division in order to tell who among you is genuine? Perhaps this also applies here? Just a thought.
Thanks for picking up this old thread to accommodate a ‘newbie.”

OH, one more thing… regarding your, gengwall, observation about how curious it is that the same people who deride women’s role and abilities also hold motherhood in such high esteem…

In the area of Kabbalah, or Jewish mysticism, there does seem to be a strong history of both a near idolatry of mothers right next door to a squelching of women’s role or authority. The rationale that an author gave in a book I recently did a review on is that women are so much more spiritual than men, that they have innate spiritual understanding by virtue of the midwives who did not kill the male babies while yet in Egypt; that their understanding is so intuitive that although it is nice for them to study or participate in worship gatherings or study, it just isn’t necessary for them…
There are many things that flow from this that I do not believe are either relationally or spiritually healthy or in line with our Elohim, YHWH’s Word, from Genesis to Revelation! (My background is that of clinical social work, marriage and family– and agency and private practice for 25+ years so I do have a basis for an opinion here!)
Needless to say, I take exception to such a position for MANY reasons. And sadly, this sort of thing is making its way into the American Messianic community.
Just FYI, in case you were interested.

Yes, thanks! You are correct.

Moving from English, through Greek or Aramaic, back to the Hebrew is enlightening, and then adding the paleo-Hebrew pictographic letters and concepts is even more enlightening! I am not a Hebrew scholar by any stretch but a serious student of the Word and find it very helpful to include this perspective.
I was just in Kenya and explained something of the letters of the word Beresheit: “in the beginning” The first letter the beit, represents a house, or a tent. The women’s quarters are in the center and the man’s quarters are near the door. The audience laughed but my translator didn’t explain why until later. Seems in Kenya, the general understanding is that a man is ALWAYS to be nearest the door…so I think they had a little sense of connection with our Israelite ancestors there.