Jason Oliver Evans

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

I find Dr. Ware’s position problematic. The apostle John states in his First Epistle:

“Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Le t that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father And this promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.” (2: 23-5)

As believers we are taken into the Triune fellowship. We pray in the Spirit to the Father in the name of Christ. God the Father and God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one. They are distinct in their hypostases but always one in essence. The Father is Creator, the Son is Creator, the Spirit is Creator. How the triune God creates (Father speaks the Word by which all things made are made in the power of the Spirit).

It is rather unfortunate that modern evangelical theologians have adopted the term ‘roles’ to describe the mysterious nature of God. The ancient theologians used the term ‘rank’, yet they affirmed the oneness, and authority, and majesty. the Persons of the Trinity do not have a one attribute ascribe to Him that the others do not possess. The Father begets, the Son is eternally begotten, and the Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son (western church). The Holy Trinity is worthy are our worship our obedience, and our prayers.

Amen, Cheryl!

Source: Pondering Anglican Woes: An interview with J.I. Packer

Touchstone: A Journal of Mere Christianity

http://touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=15-10-042-i

Jesus is simply the Man I want to be like. Both egalitarians and complementarians need to learn of Him. I just read an interview of J.I. Packer, eminent evangelical theologian, from Touchstone Magazine. His views of women in church leadership and in general are interesting:

Women’s ordination is probably the single major bone of contention among traditionalist and Evangelical Anglicans. Where do you stand on that issue? Are you for or against it?

JIP: I do not find the arguments to the effect that Scripture forbids the Church to make women presbyters compelling. While I, therefore, think the Church may do it, I think it is folly for the Church to do it.

Why?

JIP: Scripture makes clear that God, having made the two sexes different, wants them to remain different. To turn the presbyterate, which in the New Testament is defined clearly as a man’s job, into a unisex role is a departure from that divine wisdom. I believe in women’s giftedness and ministry, but their ministry should be separately structured.

Is this personal for you?

JIP: I do not hold the church’s mistake here against any individual woman clergyman, but I make plain to anyone who asks that I accept women presbyters as such under protest. I think the Anglican Church ought not to have accepted women’s ordination to the presbyterate.

In regards to the TNIV:

What might be at risk in these new translations?

JIP: What is jeopardized in these translations is the fact that, according to Scripture, masculinity entails leadership and femininity entails support. Patterns of cooperation between the sexes in which the man takes leadership responsibility are, on balance, healthier, because they are directly fitted to human nature in a way that a reversal of this pattern can never be.

What is puzzling about Packer’s theology of gender is it’s lack of scriptural support for the clean cut “masculinity-lead” and “femininity-support” motif. Since when is being an elder of the church of God a “man’s job?” What about the female elders in 1 Timothy 5? Whatever happened to mothers instructing children, Deborah leading the army of the Lord into victory over Sisera and Jabin, Queen Esther being an instrument of salvation of her people, Priscilla instructing Apollos, Nympha leading the house church she help establish? This seems the a blatant disregard for the Scriptures to me? Any thoughts, Cheryl?

Cheryl,
I found something that may interest you. I have a quote from Walter C. Kaiser, Jr., Professor Emeritus of Old Testament of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary regarding 1 Timothy 2:13-14:

It is this Greek verb, exapata?, “to thoroughly
deceive,” that shifts the word plass? from the secondary meaning
“to form,” as in creation, to the primary meaning usually associated
with this verb: “to shape [socially or educationally].” Thus,
according to Paul, the two reasons women should not teach are:
(1) they have not as yet had a chance to be taught, and (2) they
can all too easily be tricked and deceived when they have not
yet been taught. Unfortunately, Adam too sinned, but did so
being fully cognizant of what was going on: he just ate! Eve, on
the other hand, seemed to be really misled and attacked as if in
an ambush, because she had not as yet had all the advantages of
walking and talking with God in the garden of Eden or of learning
as had Adam.”

This is an exerpt of his article “Correcting Caricatures: The Biblical Teaching on Women” found at under the Free Articles section at the Christians for Biblical Equality website http://www.cbeinternational.org

Blessings,
Jason Oliver

Jason

Cheryl said: “God can do a miracle. At any rate I am willing to be a vessel to be used by God to do whatever he wants.”

That’s enough wisdom right there!

Cheryl,
Do you think Matt’s time slots to present your case is generous? It seems he wants to put you in tight position. Truth is not simplistic. Unfortunately for Brother Matt, it is when its coming from a person which whom he disagrees.

Cheryl,
I have your blog under my Firefox Bookmarks folder called “Christian Resources”. I will continue to be a reader of this blog. I believe your ministry to the Body of Christ is vital. Thank God for women like you and the brothers and sisters who are fed up with the enemy’s deception being paraded as “Biblical Truth”. Now I’m learning to be careful when I read or listen to people when they use the term “Biblical”. Because what may be biblical may not be Godly. Saul, king of Israel was biblical. The Jezebels were biblical. Goliath was biblical, but were they godly? We are not called to be biblical men and women, but Christian men and Christian women. Our goal is to be conformed into the image of the only Begotten of the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ. It’s is so important to “rightly divide the word of truth” in these latters. People are being hurt by skilled workmen (male and female). We need the power of the Spirit and sound biblical hermeneuticians. The reality of lost souls demands our responsibility to interpret the Word of God according to the will of God for the glory of God. The Prophets of the Old Covenant had to soundly interpret the Law i.e. sit in the council of the Lord. How many of us so-called Bible-believing Christians do that?

I believe that complementarianism is a false doctrine informed by Western patriarchal culture, not the Scripture. Yes, Scripture was written within the Near Eastern patriarchal culture that is Israel, yet the Holy Spirit gave us examples of godly leadership and prophetic authority in Deborah, Miriam, Huldah, Anna, Phoebe, Mary sister of Lazarus, Mary the mother our Lord, Priscilla, and other women of the Faith in the Scriptures and in the Early Church. God will continue to use women along side their brothers in Christ for the coming of His Kingdom. Keep the faith and stay in the race!!!

Thanks Teknomom for the encouragement. I needed that.

I have never been so apalled at a so-called man of God. This man should not be on radio. He was rude, arrogant, very disrespectful. He has twisted your words. And no, Matt, there was one elder in the Old Testament who was female, Deborah. Matt should have known better that the early church was modeled after the Old Testament governance (elders). And the elders (presbuteroi) is masculine-gendered plural word but that does not necessarily refer to just men.

Did the men of Israel have a problem with Deborah? From history and the biblical witness, I think not! Jewish historians have so much respect for this woman of God. Western Christian men have problems with her. Matthew Henry had a problem with her, too. I was completely offended at Matt’s behavior and the way he spoke to you. God forgive me for the names I called him!!! The more I hear this complementarian doctrine the more it makes my blood boil.

This gender debate in the evangelical movement is literally making me sick! The devil is truly busy to divide the Church, keeping women oppressed and men ignorant! Sometimes wonder why I identify myself as an evangelical. If it wasn’t for the Gospel of Christ and the power of Holy Spirit to keep me, I don’t know what I would do. Because of this issue which is so dear to me, my flesh just screams to renounce Christ, not purse ministry and go down the to perdition. Hell seems to be easy way out because this debate in the so-called household of God is ripping my heart! God have mercy on us. Have mercy on me!

Cheryl, God bless you. You are a strong woman. I take my hat off to you and the man who married you. I want to be married to woman just like you. Please keep me in your prayers and I will surely pray for your strength in the Lord.

Cheryl,

I am listening to this debate now. You Go head, Girl!!!!!

I applaud your faithfulness to the Word of God and you gentleness, patience, and grace!!

You held your ground. Slick was a bit emotional. He couldn’t separate “What the Scriptures says”, and “What the Scripture means”.