Justa Berean

Even though Matt is hugely in the wrong not only for the “radio poison” quote but for several other things he said about you, I recommend that you do post an apology for saying that Matt said it, when in reality he quoted another who said it. It’s still wrong, but you need to be straight in every aspect. And also, Diane feels you accused her of doing something she didn’t. I recommend that you show your integrity where Matt is showing little to none. These are small things compared to the eternal Truths of healing, deliverance, freedom from the bondages of wrong teachings.

Diane said that it was Thursdays show that was posted, not Fridays. So the question is did Cheryl hear it on thursday or Friday. I thought she said Friday. Diane said that Fridays show was posted in 2 parts.

I’d want to get the original tape from the radio show.

Cheryl, they are now claiming that you did not hear Matt say directly that you are radio poison, but that he was quoting his listeners who told him that. And that it is still on the tape.

http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?p=2027456#post2027456

“The attackers were many on that board and it gives a good look at the fruit that comes from the hierarchical rule where one man is the boss and people can be stepped on and stepped over at will. It isn’t attractive.”

This is so true, Cheryl. I’ve been watching this phenomenon for quite a while. The only explanation is that sin reaps sinful attitudes. By their fruit we will know them.

And this is also why it is so important for those who have the truth on a subject to not respond back to evil treatment with anything resembling it. Even though its responding rather than attacking, that will not be acknowledged. We must stick to the facts and leave character assassinations and foul adverbs to them. Getting angry doesn’t help. And that is another reason, we are all so blessed with your repeatedly kind responses in the face of mean spirited words.

The really bad thing is that he is teaching other Christians to do the same. He is encouraging unChristlike behavior among Christians. I’ve rarely seen such abusive language freely bandied about among Christians at other Christians.

And you are correct. Matt calls Christians heretics and other mischaracterizations on his whim and the ones who point it out are censored. If he is so “right” for doing so, why censor those who point out his words.

The fact that Matt edited out his insult shows a conscience.

Hope you are doing OK, Cheryl. Just saw you take a beating on CARM.
🙁

You and your family are already on my regular prayer “list”. I’ll be trusting God to guide you in exactly what He wants in all of this.

many blessings,
M.

Big Guns, eh! LOL Thanks Michael. I’m pleased that I could help. 🙂

And you are welcome Cheryl. :^)

11 Woe to the wicked! Disaster is upon them!
They will be paid back for what their hands have done.
12 Youths oppress my people,
women rule over them.
O my people, your guides lead you astray;
they turn you from the path.

two other translations…..

The Stone Edition Tanach
“”but woe to the wicked person who does evil, for the recompense of his hands shall be dealt to him. My people — their oppressors are mockers and women dominate them. O my people, you leaders mislead you and they have corrupted the direction of your ways.” 11-12. FOOTNOTE: vs.12. the people have become so driven to satisfy their lusts, that they do anything to please their immoral women (Radak).

A Hebrew concordant version .
10-12: “say to the righteous that good is his portion, for the fruit of their actions are they eating. A lack to the wicked one; evil is his portion, for the requital of his hands is returning to him. My people—its exactor (oppressors) are clean-gleaners (children) and the exactors rule among My People. those making you happy lead you astray, and the way of your paths they confuse.” (the implication here is that the leaders are acting like children and also the implication that wicked women making them happy after their lusts, lead them astray)

If you will read further in the chapter it is proclaiming the judgment against immoral women who walk about as harlots. There is truly nothing in this chapter about women leaders. In this chapter no one wins any good impressions. The men of Zion were behaving as children following after their lustiness. The daughters of Zion were behaving as harlots to get their way.

In the beginning of the chapter you see that the prophesy is that God is going to remove the Godly men and women…. all the Godly leaders. And replace them with childish leaders and mockers who will dominate them. Everyone will dominate his neighbor, etc…. this whole chapter is a description of the downfall of God’s people because of their wicked speech and actions toward God. Nothing at all to do with women leaders. This has been mistranslated because someone jumped on the few words that said “women rule over them” and took them out of context remaking them to be referring to leadership when actually the “ruling” was of a sensual nature.

Yes, Michael. To try to limit Dr. Klouda to seek restitution and justice from a warped system within the University or the denomination that mistreated her is simply trying to prevent her from finding justice. That reveals a lot in itself.

Terri, who posted the bit about ” an amazoness with a loin cloth and spear…”. Which thread? I didn’t see that. It’s really difficult to find stuff on that forum. I don’t like the linear because then I cannot tell who is being responded to. And the treaded is just so long. 🙁

testing again…
The Comp Egal website

testing…

Don, that is absolutely riviting. Do you have a couple favorite books on the topic where this relationship is shown?

Charis wrote:
“As for y’all being called “feminists” take it as a badge of honor.
“Christian” was coined to be derogatory.”

I vaguely remember hearing that. Do you have any more info?

For your information:

Excellent blog here about the complementarian and egalitarian dialogue.

http://complegalitarian.blogspot.com/

That was enlightening Greg and Don.

Don you wrote:
““Theological liberalism” is the bogeyman of a believer that does not want to change. This is what the slaveholders accused the abolitionists of, in the terminology of the day. This is what the kings accused the Parlimentarians of being…..
“Beware the person who brings up a bogeyman into a discussion.”

Didn’t know the slaveholders used that terminology. Really fits since the Baptists were the primary force in keeping slavery and are now the primary force in keeping male dominance and male authority the primary theme of churchianity. Only now they are patriarchal, complementarian Baptists.
And I would say that the bogeyman was brought into the CARM discussion by their new category of the discussions. Hmmmm!

Good point Greg. I’m beginning to understand what it must have felt like to the African Americans when they were forbidden to eat in most restaurants and relegated to the back of the bus. But at least we CAN worship God from a sense of equality.

Man if I’d been alive in the “dark ages” I would’ve burned at the stake or hanged. Human nature hasn’t changed. Now they’re just hanging us with words.

I’m a bit put off by the fact that Matt had Diane rearranged their forum to make a folder for our discussions titled Evangelical Feminism. And had a nice introduction from Wayne Grudem that says in part…

“”I am concerned that evangelical feminism (or “egalitarianism”) is becoming the new path by which evangelicals are being drawn into theological liberalism. (By “theological liberalism” I mean a system of thinking that denies the complete truthfulness of the Bible as the Word of God and denies the unique and absolute authority of the Bible in our lives.)”

I consider that nasty. I’m not a feminist, nor a theological liberal. And I absolutely adhere to the Sacred Scriptures as the only source for eternal truth.

But now I have to post in that section if I wish to discuss these things with them. sigh!

That is enteresting how you describe your bewilderment and inability to give an answer. For many I do think that their inability to effectively and conclusively give an answer is important. God’s Truths weave a consistent thread throughout the whole of Scripture. When certain things seem to snag and mess with other facts of Scripture, it should alert us that we’ve got something wrong. This is an encouragement to keep talking about the Biblical truths of real equality in the body of Christ.

P.S. glad to hear that. 🙂

Say Don … a friendly question. How long ago did you first read Bilzikians “Beyond Sex Roles”. Did you ever marry that woman who was the inspiration to read Bilzikians book. 🙂 🙂

And it isn’t just disrespect. It’s gleeful derisive mocking right along with some misunderstanding and an occasional deliberate twisting of what is really said.

While there are only a few on that site that do that it is worse on some of the other very influential gender hierarchalist sites. I’ve been watching the email list started by CBMW’s first leaders. And there is a blog by CBMW’s earliest leaders that is also crazy nasty with false statements and ad hominens toward CBE, egalitarians and those who call themselves Christian feminists.

I don’t know quite what to make of it. And it seems to be escalating. Which makes it all the more important for Christians who believe in Biblical equality to NOT respond in kind, but to treat them with respectful discourse while making firm and pointed corrections. The corrections are just as important as showing them genuine Christian charity.

Watching the conversation has caused me to realize how important it is that women stand up for the truth. When men and women stand together for God I believe God’s power has a wider, stronger and more balanced base from which to work.

It concerns me that they show so little affection for the Christians they disagree with. There were some conventions put on by CBMW around five years or so ago, after which patriarchalists and gender hierarchalists became more free in their rude and accusatory language to their opponents. I believe there were some teaching then that also encouraged gender hierarchalists to be freer to call others heretics. It was a malice that slowly spread throughout the body.

And now the average Christian is infected with it. Very sad indeed.

Well, you take good care of your MIL. 🙂

Cheryl,
Excellent job on answering Matts questions. Especially wise to answer with Scriptures. Short and succinct. 🙂

Now let’s see if he gets off the rabbits trail and back to the discussion. But I’m not holding my breath.

In the meantime, I do hope to see you get back to your regularly scheduled life. and give Matt a point here and there instead of so much of your time. You have so much to offer, I hate to see you sidetracked from your greatest contributions.

Many blessings to you. I look forward to God using you greatly now and in the future. God is going to use you to win new ground for the kingdom in believers lives. He will be using you to set more and more people free to serve God in joyous adoration.

Hallelujah! I’m raising my hands in praise to God for His unspeakable riches in Heavenly places.

Loved your quote from “There Were Two Trees in the Garden”. Very discerning point here: “Christians, disciples of Jesus who He said would be recognized by their love, have demonstrated the uncanny ability to agree on 98% of their doctrines and separate from one another over the 2% on which they disagree.”

It is my opinion (for whatever it’s worth) that there is no way you are going to be able to satisfy him in these questions. I’ve been a deeply devoted and dedicated Christian, loving God with all my heart mind and soul, and I don’t doubt that if I tried to answer those questions that Matt could tear me apart and find a way to label me a heretic. It wouldn’t be the truth. But I don’t doubt that he is capable of twisting things to fit his plan. I firmly believe that he doesn’t care about your answers, but only what he can do with them.

He is laying in wait with a trap. It’s not that you don’t have solid satisfactory answers. It’s because he has a plan to turn and twist what you say. And he’s good at it.

It’s on the same Carm Radio forum….. called ” to Cheryl some questions”. Seems like he’s searching for something else to fault you with. Theological points.

Now Matt has a new set of questions. some sort of trap. Probably trying to see where he can really call you a heretic.

I usually walk away from those sort of things.

🙁

Awesome! I noticed he pulled the entire recent thread on their forums about Gen. 3:15-16. Too much sense was coming through I suspect.

BTW how does one listen to the debate. I’m in Hawaii. Don’t get their radio station, don’t think. Will you record it and have it for play back later?

I guess that is one way to boost the listening audience of his station. 🙂