Kathleen

When I read MacArthur’s comments on the state of women, and especially female believers in comparison to male believers, I get the idea that he teaches that men are fully redeemable in the flesh, while females are only redeemable IF they follow certain guidelines, ala being under a male “head” at all times.

Really. messed. up.

This is the kind of stuff that seems to be why Jesus had to come to the earth in the first place. How can this be considered “grace” or “gospel” centered teaching at all?

Thank you for this encouragement. Tears were welling up in my eyes as I remembered all the times where my so-called church family also rejected and marginialized me for my insights in these things (essentially, my gifting in the Body). This reaffirms my need to press on in God’s truth of His Word, unswerved by the teachings of fleshly-minded humans and listening to God’s Spirit guide me into His truth.

Merry Christmas!

That was beautifully said, TL, and exactly what I think the Lord has been showing me in my journey through the Scriptures and in my experiences with Him in my marriage as well. I’ve been married almost 23 years and in these ideas and teachings is where I believe our marriage has never been stronger.

I came out of a heavily comp influenced church (for 9 years; now I’m out) that relied on Gothard (authoritarian), Piper, Grudem and Driscoll and Mahaney, as well as some strange Harris’ flavored theology mixed in, and everything, and I mean everything was about “authority over”. After years and years of searching out the Scriptures myself, I came to the conclusion that the agenda is not The Gospel of Jesus Christ in these circles of influence, but one of lording over others, and making sure people are in lock-step obedience to “ways” of living.

My husband and I are reading through 1 Peter 3 for our devotionals together the last couple of days. It is so like God to answer my prayers and concerns about 1 Peter 3:1-5 here, and I’m so thankful. The context actually starts in chapter 2, especially verse 21 through to 1 Peter 3:5,6.

Grudem states,
“Marriage is intended to be a reflection of the divine order in that submission by the wife in marraige reflects the submission of the church to Christ. Hlep her to see that in neither case is the submission mutual. Christ does not submit to the church, but vice versa, and likewise the husband does not submit to the wife.”

Well, actually our Lord did yield and suffered for us (vs. 21) and left us an example about yielding to one another. Though I don’t believe this advocates abuse of women/wives, because husbands are to take that example of Christ for themselves as well, and they’re exhorted in 3:7 to honor their wives, etc. The context of this passage of chapters 2 and 3 of 1 Peter IS “one anothering” each other, especially among believers.

The context just jumped out at me that it must mean yielding to each other and not some kind of hierarchal submission to authority.

Cheryl,
As I was reading this post and that passage in Genesis, it really struck me how that might have felt to be Eve in that situation. Thinking on how God was telling Eve and Adam what life was going to be like outside of the Garden, I could imagine Eve with tears in her eyes, weeping at the enormity of the consequences of her actions. Adam may have been similarly affected, and acted in a self-preservation kind of way, I don’t know, but the loss they suffered in their relationship was enormous. They aren’t mythical-type humans; they were a real husband and wife. I’m just starting to see from these studies how men and women really do respond to each other, when we’re not “one-anothering” (Eph. 5) each other.

Lin, I didn’t read you as being uncharitable at all. I agree and have seen the same thing in patriarchal circles, where their teaching/”ministry” is their livelihood. Even these people have to meet their mortgage payments.

I have seen first-hand the kind of subserviance of the wife in a vocally patriarchal marriage. It was a bit astonishing to watch a late-term pregnant wife wait on her husband hand and foot while company (my family) was visiting at their home, while she also tended to their other 3 children. I helped, but wondered why the husband didn’t while he talked with my husband. We’re no longer in relationship with this couple, as their extreme forms of patriarchy became quite judgemental and they began to even question our parenting with our own teenage daughter.

I also see that people don’t want to challenge the thinking that is comfortable for them. They stay in rules and roles out of fear, I think.

I’ve always been taught that “I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception” to mean (particularly about the word “conception”) that God would increase the length of time for a pregnancy. That’s just been the really quick answer given to that passage.

This has been an eye-opening study and I’m learning lots from this site.

Cheryl,

I’ve been reading over your blog for a while now and so many posts have been extremely helpful for me in my understanding of the hard passages of the Scriptures. Thank you.

Actually, my comment doesn’t show the extent of gratefulness to God that your insights have helped me in understand my value as a member of Christ’s Body. I’ve had tears in my eyes off and on all day because of what God’s Holy Spirit has been teaching me lately.

I’ve struggled with finding my giftings valued within the organized church, and have battled shame and puzzlement with my insatiable desire to understand the Scriptures and apply them with the giftings and passions God has apparently given me. The church I most recently have dealt with is becoming increasingly patriarchal (however that’s defined) and the resources promoted there all revolve around some of these same theologians and Vision Forum/CBMW/Mahaney, etc., teachings. Top-down, authoritarian teachings are really becoming prevalent in the homeschool arena (of which that church is in the center of).

I am in a healthy place now, but the past teachings and restricting of women into very specific roles (wife, mother, mother’s helper, full-quiver, homeschool) had a very detrimental effect on my physical health and my soul. I literally became ill (stressed out to the point of anemia and fainting 3 times and ambulanced to the E.R.) after realizing the full scope of the manipulations of the Word that were going on with the teachers there. The teachings were getting so bad from the PULPIT that the main elder was advocating “The Return of the Daughters” as a resource to consider for raising our daughters.

I also wanted to say, “Hey, Lin!” 🙂 You’ve been one that’s helped me see so many things in the Word that I had never seen before, and I thank God for you.

This blog is such a blessing, thank you.